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July 13th, 2015 628 comments

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New 5.5″ (5″) Figures on SDCC Underground Toys Stand

New 5.5″ (5″) Collectors series

Information from attendees of SDCC

  • 12th Doctor in black shirt
  • 12th Doctor in White shirt
  • 12th Doctor in Purple shirt
  • 12th Doctor in Black shirt with polka dots
  • Clara in Blue Dress (straight paint variant of Oswin)
  • Curator 4th Doctor with lenticular painting and walking stick

Images courtesy of www.figures.com

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628 comments

  • DoctorWhoFan1963

    July 13th, 2015 - 5:59pm

    What figure does everyone think would look best with the Time of the Doctor Capaldi head? As I prefer that head sculpt to this new one.

  • TheAgeOfUltron

    July 13th, 2015 - 5:29pm

    Why 4 12th Doctors?
    Why can’t we have just 1 figure with different torso accessories?

    • booboo

      July 13th, 2015 - 6:10pm

      retailer exclusives ala Rory?

      i dont know

  • shatner

    July 13th, 2015 - 4:18pm

    if for instance Underground toys read your site and decided to change Clara and the Doctor how long would it take?. Although I can’t see that happening would probably cost way too much. I will get Clara it does look like her more than 5 inch amy. but might have to find and ad a jacket and also repaint the doctors lining. on my 3.75 it looks great as long as you don’t paint under the lapels.

    • booboo

      July 13th, 2015 - 4:23pm

      it would be down to Character but would take months

      I think what you see is what you will get as a kick start for the collectors series and things will move on bit by bit from here.

  • MrHalloWho

    July 13th, 2015 - 3:41pm

    I’ve seen pictures of the Clara figure, and it is just a repaint of the Oswin figure. She has the exact same mould, but in a blue dress and no belt.

  • timelord25

    July 13th, 2015 - 1:49pm

    hey boo boo is there any more news on the 3 figure pack’s

    • booboo

      July 13th, 2015 - 1:54pm

      not that i have seen

    • timelord25

      July 13th, 2015 - 2:02pm

      ok

  • Doctor_Number 10

    July 13th, 2015 - 1:46am

    Booboo, does 5inch 12th Doctor have red inside his jacket or will it be like the 3.75?

    • booboo

      July 13th, 2015 - 10:20am

      just done know, i cant see ant sign of one in the images

  • TARDISGuy

    July 13th, 2015 - 12:27am

    All this talk of the black shirt being from Time Heist. I always thought the Time Heist short was a dark green and the black shirt variant would be from Listen/In the Forest of the Night

    • DoctorSong2013

      July 13th, 2015 - 7:57am

      Everytime I see his time heist costume it appears a black-grey colour but I can see where you get the dark green from. It won’t be from listen or ITFOTN because he wore a jumper not a shirt

    • Thatchos

      July 13th, 2015 - 1:54pm

      I always saw the Time Heist shirt as more of a dark blue. 😐

    • TARDISGuy

      July 13th, 2015 - 3:59pm

      Having just rewatched Time Heist (great episode), I still can’t tell. The lighting is so strange, in some shots it looks black, green. In one shot, I swear it looks purple. This Time Heist shirt is weird

  • NatalieShark

    July 12th, 2015 - 10:24pm

    I am so excited over the 12th Doctor and the Curator! I have been wanting a 12th Doctor figure and was afraid he would never be released in the 5 inch range! I almost bought the 11-12 regeneration figure just to have something. I am totally going to get the black shirt with the holes in it. If that’s an option of course.

    • DoctorSong2013

      July 12th, 2015 - 11:29pm

      Sadly it isn’t an option for now

  • Thatchos

    July 12th, 2015 - 9:28pm

    Out of all these AWESOME new 5″/5.5″ figures/sets, I would most like to get the Curator Set, at least one Twelfth Doctor (I don’t know which one), and maybe a Clara. To get it all would be nice but probably not plausible. So I’ll just think about those for now.
    As for what I’m most excited about, it would have to be the Curator Set. I don’t know if anybody expected that AT ALL – well, “anybody” might be a stretch, but you get the point – and now it’s almost in our reach and I’m SO EXCITED!!!!!!
    😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

    😀

  • Judooning

    July 12th, 2015 - 8:19pm

    Clara IS in a 2 pack and she actually looks quite nice. I believe she is with the Black shirt 12th Dr but you can only see the very tip of Capaldi’s arm and not the colour of his shirt.

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 8:25pm

      how so?

      she is very clearly in the middle of the box, same position as the 12th Doctors

      there is no room

      http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/15/61/24/35/image11.jpg

      you can also just see the edge of the 5.5″ collectors series triangle opposite her knee

    • DoctorSong2013

      July 12th, 2015 - 8:30pm

      Where did you get that idea from Judooning?, we have confirmation from 2 people that were there and clearly she is in the middle of the box in the picture

    • Judooning

      July 12th, 2015 - 8:40pm

      Ah my mistake. That white thing at the side I assumed was another piece of those ties that hold a figure in. That the trouble with using a 10 year old laptop lol.

  • Anonymous

    July 12th, 2015 - 7:46pm

    does the eleventh doctor have a red bow tie or a blue one?

    • Doctor what

      July 12th, 2015 - 7:51pm

      Red definitely

    • Anonymous

      July 12th, 2015 - 7:59pm

      Damn it, i was really hoping for a blue one as i missed the original release, oh well, I will still get the set for army building with the angels (provided its released in B&M at a reasonable price like the last set of those three figure sets)

  • Run you clever boy

    July 12th, 2015 - 6:55pm

    LOVE THEM !!! The only problem I have is there are sooo many amazing outfits Clara wears so why can’t they use one of those 🙁 but other than that great

  • David

    July 12th, 2015 - 6:50pm

    Is the white shirt variant the costume from when the 12th doctors costume was revealed, i.e. his first costume, if not which episode is it from?

    • DoctorWhoFan1963

      July 12th, 2015 - 7:24pm

      It’s not the first costume it’s a similar costume just without the cardigan. It’s from the start of the Caretaker when the Doctor and Clara are chained on a planet.

  • David

    July 12th, 2015 - 6:45pm

    Doctor Who Toys.net are saying that the 12th Doctor (black shirt I think) comes in a two pack with Clara. Is this true? It would make sense as this could lead to a two pack of Kate Stewart and Osgood and Missy with Cyberman (and Danny Head)

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 6:49pm

      1st time i have heard that mentioned

      is someone privy to some info that the rest of us aren’t?

    • David

      July 12th, 2015 - 6:52pm

      i dont know, i just read it in the forum comments. sorry i cant be more helpful, as I finally have a chance to speak to you Booboo I would like to congratulate you on such a fantastic site, really detailed and special community, we can always rely on you!

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 6:57pm

      we do out best, but even i am getting a tad confused right now

    • Doctor what

      July 12th, 2015 - 7:36pm

      I can’t find this anywhere on there… I’m confused…

    • DoctorSong2013

      July 12th, 2015 - 7:39pm

      No that comment was from ages ago, each figure is coming separately as seen in the picture and as two people on the forum who were there have said, the two pack rumour was simply just a rumour and we were only speculating

    • DoctorSong2013

      July 12th, 2015 - 7:42pm

      No that comment was from ages ago, each figure is coming separately as seen in the picture and as two people on the forum who were there have said, the two pack rumour was simply just a rumour and we were only speculating or we were just making wish lists, we know nothing much more than you guys, we just have the advantage of having two people who were there

  • RORY DOCTOR RIVER POND

    July 12th, 2015 - 6:05pm

    So, are the 3.75 inch not doing well? Is this why the 5″ are creeping back in? I’ve been reading the comments below and it’s all quite confusing. I’d like to think they are prototypes, especially Clara, as they rarely release figures in outfits that haven’t been worn.

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 6:31pm

      like I have said if UT did actually say that it would only apply to the USA and we know they prefer things like funko and titans, they dont like the classics as much either

      The USA market is very different to the UK market

      I cant see how they would have any Knowledge of the UK market they dont sell them here

    • The Foretold

      July 12th, 2015 - 7:57pm

      Yes, the US as a whole are becoming less of a collector’s market and more of a quirky market with the big influx of vinyl goodies being offered, especially when they offer big franchises in all the same scale. I could easily imagine the same applies for Doctor Who. Indeed, you only have to see the regular updates on this very site to see quirky vinyl stuff is very big for the brand.

  • DoctorWhoFan1963

    July 12th, 2015 - 5:42pm

    Hi does anyone know if the Capaldi figures have the red lining inside the jacket? Also I as wondering if the heads were removable as I would prefer to use the Capaldi head from the Time of the Doctor set. Any help or information would be much appreciated. 🙂

    • wholords2

      July 12th, 2015 - 7:41pm

      We have no idea about either yet
      And you probably won’t know about them having removable heads until they are released in the fall

    • DoctorWhoFan1963

      July 12th, 2015 - 9:12pm

      Ok thanks

  • DominicBandicoot123

    July 12th, 2015 - 5:04pm

    Cannot wait for these! 5 inch figures are the best range!
    I think they should release these in 5 inch in the future
    Series 1:
    Rose Tyler (Rose) – Revised Articulation (So no “disco arms”) – Blue Bag and Auton Arm
    Captain Jack Harkness|Parting of the Ways/BadWolf – Machine Guns X2
    Series 2:
    10th Doctor (Long Coat) – Revised Articulation – Sonic, Psychic Paper and Swappable Head wearing glasses
    10th Doctor (Brown Suit) – Revised Articulation – Sonic, Psychic Paper and Swappable Head Wearing the 3D Glasses and another wearing normal glasses
    10th Doctor (Tuxedo Suit) – Tray, Sonic, Swappable Head Wearing Glasses, Swappable Chest with Bow Tie untied
    Rose Tyler (Army of Ghosts/Doomsday)
    Rose Tyler Waitress Outfit – Tray and Removable Apron
    Series 3:
    10th Doctor Blue (Non Pinstripe) Suit – Sonic, Broken Sonic and Swappable Feet (With and without shoes)
    Martha Jones (Smith and Jones)
    Series 4:
    Duplicate Doctor (Journey’s End)
    Donna Noble (Turn Left/The Stolen Earth/Journey’s End) – Time Beetle
    Rose Tyler (S4 Outfit) – Gun
    Martha Jones (The Doctor’s Daughter)
    Series 5:
    Amy Pond (Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone) – Swappable Stone Hand
    Amy Pond (The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang) – Cyberman Head
    Rory Williams (The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood)
    Series 6:
    11th Doctor Long Coat (Let’s Kill Hitler/Closing Time/The Wedding of River Song) – Sonic, Dorium’s Head in Box, Blue Envelopes X4, Antibodie X3 (From the Teselecta) and a Swappable Head without Stetson
    Amy Pond (The Impossible Astronaut) – Gun and Swappable Head with hair in Pony Tail
    River Song (The Impossible Astronaut) – Gun
    Amy Pond (Day of the Moon) (When in the Care Home with Canton) – Torch and Swappable Head and Arms with Tally Marks
    River Song (Day of the Moon/A Good Man Goes to War) – Gun
    Pirate Amy (The Curse of the Black Spot) – Sword
    Amy Pond (A Good Man Goes to War) – Baby Melody
    Roman Rory (A Good Man Goes to War) – Sword
    Madame Vastra (A Good Man Goes to War) – Swords
    Jenny Flint (A Good Man Goes to War) – Swords
    Female Peg Doll (Night Terrors)
    Amy Peg Doll (Night Terrors)
    Handbot (The Girl Who Waited)
    Old Amy (The Girl Who Waited)
    The Minotaur (The God Complex)
    11th Doctor Eye Drive (The Wedding of River Song)
    Agent “Amy” Pond (The Wedding of River Song) – Stun Gun
    Captain “Rory” Williams (The Wedding of River Song) – Gun
    River Song Eye Drive (The Wedding of River Song) – Handcuffs

    • DominicBandicoot123

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:17pm

      Series 7:
      Amy Pond (Dinosaurs on a Spaceship) – Stun Gun
      Rory Williams (Asylum of the Daleks) – “Egg”
      Dalek Skeleton (Asylum of the Daleks)
      Oswin Dalek (Asylum of the Daleks)
      Brian Williams (Dinosaurs on a Spaceship/The Power of Three) Trowel, Gold Ball and Cube
      The Gunslinger (A Town Called Mercy)
      Melody Malone (The Angels Take Manhattan) – Cherubs X3
      Amy Pond (The Angels Take Manhattan) – Swappable Head with glasses and Cherubs X3
      Rory Williams (The Angels Take Manhattan) – Cups of Coffee and Cherubs X3
      Clara Oswold (The Snowmen)
      Clara Oswold “Governess” (The Snowmen) – Swappable Head with Hair Down and Umbrella
      Snowman (The Snowmen) – Swappable Head X2 No Mouth and With Mouth
      Ice Warrior Skaldak (Cold War)
      Clara Oswold (Hide) – Bag
      11th Doctor (Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS)
      Clara Oswold (Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS)
      Madame Vastra (The Snowmen/The Crimson Horror)
      Jenny Flint (The Snowmen/The Crimson Horror)
      Commander Strax (The Snowmen/The Crimson Horror)
      Cyberman (Nightmare in Silver/The Time of the Doctor/Dark Water/Death in Heaven) -Swappable Head (Danny Pink)
      Zygon (The Day of the Doctor)
      Rusty (Into the Dalek)
      Skovox Blitzer (The Caretaker)
      Danny Pink (Into the Dalek/The Caretaker) – Bag
      Missy (Deep Breath/Into The Dalek/The Caretaker/Flatline/The Forest in the Night/Dark Water/Death in Heaven/The Magician’s Apprentice – Umbrella and Stun Gun Thing 😛
      Kate Stewart (Death in Heaven)
      Osgood (Death in Heaven) – Inhaler

  • WouldYouLikeAJellyBaby?

    July 12th, 2015 - 4:30pm

    More News on this mentioned by User Sumisu on Doctor Who Toys Net Forum who attended the Underground Toys Booth at SDCC and he talked about how pleased he was about more 5″ Figures being on the way but this is what caught my the most and he went on to say this “All Figures (by this he means The Twelfth Doctor Variants, The Curator and Clara) are sold seperately and will be out “in the Fall”h

    “They (Underground Toys) seemed to indicate the 3.75@ line was not popular and the 5″ line would be seeing a bit more activity.”

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:36pm

      as i say, we are getting conflicting stories now, other been told these sets could change completely

      and if at all true that last line certainly only applies to the states / aus where we know they like the more quirky stuff like funkos and titans

      they don’t like the classics either which probably why the line faltered

    • WouldYouLikeAJellyBaby?

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:45pm

      I personally think that these are still Prototypes and the reason why Underground Toys didn’t want people to tale pictures were because the Figures weren’t finished yet and this would be an Exclusive first glimpse of what’s to come to the Attendees at SDCC. I also think this because there is no sign of the Time Heist Twelfth Doctor Variant, I have seen what looks like to be the outline of him on one of the back’s of the Packaging but no actual Figure of him there. The Curator’s collar is also inaccurate as Tom Bake had it unbuttoned in the Episode and his Jacket had a more Tweedish appearance and texture in The Day of The Doctor. Considering also out of all the Figures there was one Prototype of each Figure and not multiples like there were of the 3.75″ Twelfth Doctor in Spacesuit from Kill The Moon at London Toy Fair this could mean that there’s still time for Character to add a Cardigan/ Waistcoat to the White Shirt Variant Twelfth Doctor as there has been a major backlash about that.

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:56pm

      Any company I know of have always had ” not final product” or “subject to licensor approval” cards clearly showing when this happens so there is no confusion.

      As far as I’m away they couldn’t be on public display otherwise.

      I still think what you see is what you will get.

    • WouldYouLikeAJellyBaby?

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:01pm

      I’m just going to wait and see, who knows? Is this 5.5″ Collector’s Series going to be more widely available and not just Exclusive to say Forbidden Planet or is each Twelfth Doctor Variant going to be Exclusive to a seperate Retailer?

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:04pm

      the only people who could tell you that aren’t talking

    • WouldYouLikeAJellyBaby?

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:06pm

      Okay, thanks anyway. I know that if word comes out about that you’ll be the first person to provide information about this so I’ll keep an eye out.

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:09pm

      I seriously wish we could already

      we went round in circles like this over the time of the Doctor set because initially it wasn’t clear exactly what was in it

    • WouldYouLikeAJellyBaby?

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:16pm

      I and am sure everyone else on this Site appreciate the length and effort you put into this page bringing us News everyday Merchandise wise whenever and wherever possible and we thank you and Luke for that.

    • David

      July 12th, 2015 - 6:31pm

      Here Here!

  • The Foretold

    July 12th, 2015 - 3:55pm

    I have been told that these figures are only there to gauge demand and show the sort of lineup we can expect, though they won’t necessarily look exactly like that. For example, Clara could well end up with a flowery or tartan patterned dress, or the figure might be shelved in favour of an upscaled The Time of the Doctor / Deep Breath figure. The Twelfth Doctor might not be four individual releases and could instead be one figure with swappable pieces. The Curator might also include The Eleventh Doctor or they might actually sculpt collars onto the figure.

    To put it simply; they’re not 100% final and ready to enter production.

    • Anonymous

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:02pm

      Who told you?

    • wholords2

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:04pm

      Where did you hear this?!?
      I hope it’s true!!

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:04pm

      who exactly has told you this?

      They look like done dusted and finished products to me

      and how can they gauge demand when they are not actually showing people them properly?

    • Anonymous

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:06pm

      Mabey this is why it didn’t want people to take photos ?

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:09pm

      regardless this is a public event, not trade, so why limit viewing to the privileged few.

      the products clearly say “coming soon” – bit daft if their not

    • the astronaut of death

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:09pm

      To be honest that face sculpt looks bad for a 5 inch figure?

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:12pm

      the way things are going i think they would have been better off not showing them at all, or released the official info and images along side

      were now back to all the griping and conflicting info and rumours

    • The Foretold

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:58pm

      A friend who was at the stall talking to an Underground Toys representative there. Don’t shoot the messenger… :o)

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:00pm

      we’re not, but someone has already left another quote from someone who was told completely different

    • The Foretold

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:00pm

      Also don’t forget that it isn’t unusual for San Diego and New York Comic Con’s to be used as Toy Fair-esque platforms for the collector’s market.

  • GFP WhenISayRun

    July 12th, 2015 - 2:52pm

    I’ll get the Curator set, the polka dot 12 (unless the ‘black’ figure is a holey jumper, in which case I’ll get that) and the Sherlock figure- they all look fantastic! I’ll also get the Clara, but I’ll be getting it so my comics companion (a custom figure that uses Oswin’s body) can have an alternate costume, not as Clara.

    • wholords2

      July 12th, 2015 - 3:40pm

      The “black” figure is just the same as the rest but with the shirt painted black
      It’s supposed to be baised of this costume from time hiest

      But I hope we do get a holey jumper 12th doc!

    • The Foretold

      July 12th, 2015 - 3:57pm

      I would rather they paint the shirt blue, like in Time Heist, opposed to creating an unseen variant. It seems odd to have four variants, where three are accurate and one is original, especially when the Doctor’s jumper is so distinctive that a shirt doesn’t really cut the mustard.

  • Nathan

    July 12th, 2015 - 2:36pm

    It may be a repaint but i already like the look of the new Clara better than the Oswin figure. Just hope it stands up a little better as my Oswin always falls over…

  • TheAgeOfUltron

    July 12th, 2015 - 12:38pm

    BooBoo could character add stripes to Clara’s dress to make it (NOTD) outfit?

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 12:50pm

      Possibly but it’s the figure we are getting for now

    • wholords2

      July 12th, 2015 - 1:11pm

      They could also put aces jacketless arms on
      It works, I tried it before when I made a NOTD clara

    • RORY DOCTOR RIVER POND

      July 12th, 2015 - 2:45pm

      wholords2 do you have a picture of your custom? I would love to see it

    • wholords2

      July 12th, 2015 - 3:41pm

      I’ll see if I can find one but i don’t think I took a picture of it, and I took it apart to use for something else

    • DoctorSong2013

      July 12th, 2015 - 4:24pm

      I’m sure that picture is on the forum somewhere Wholords

    • wholords2

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:38pm

      Ok I’ll have a look! Thanks

    • wholords2

      July 12th, 2015 - 5:42pm

      Ok here it is
      http://doctorwhotoys.net/forum/download/file.php?id=2107&mode=view
      Its absolutely awful though! Hahah

    • RORY DOCTOR RIVER POND

      July 12th, 2015 - 8:50pm

      Not bad, you did the dress very well

  • DoctorRiverTARDIS

    July 12th, 2015 - 12:23pm

    I would have preferred a holey jumper w/ hoodie variant rather than the spotty shirt one, I don’t think that the spotty version is that memorable, but from the pics of series 9 so far it looks like the holey jumper and hoodie look is going to be in most episodes.
    As for the collectors series the top few on my list are;
    Missy (Dark Water/ Death In Heaven)
    2013 Cyberman
    2013 Zygon
    Clara (either from The Day Of The Doctor, The Time Of The Doctor or Flatline)
    And I know that these two aren’t likely but I really hope they make them;
    Osgood (The Day Of The Doctor)
    Kate Stewart (Dark Water/ Death In Heaven)

    • TheOncomingStorm

      July 12th, 2015 - 1:02pm

      I think if they were going to do Osgood, it would be the Death In heaven one because its an easier sculpt and more recent

    • The Foretold

      July 12th, 2015 - 3:58pm

      I think Osgood is the ultimate candidate of doing swappable torso pieces for different Doctors! With a scarf accessory if you wanted to have her The Day of the Doctor outfit.

  • The Five Doctors

    July 12th, 2015 - 12:09pm

    Would anyone else prefer the 12th Doctor in his holy jumper instead of the whit shirt? I certainly would

  • shatner

    July 12th, 2015 - 12:01pm

    the polka dots look terrible and as for the clara oh dear i do hope these are just prototypes

  • Trenzalore1502

    July 12th, 2015 - 11:27am

    There are some new, clearer images of these figures now over on the whona and doctorwhotoys forums, the same images either way so take your pick.

  • Doctorfan

    July 12th, 2015 - 10:42am

    BOOBOO will these be at doctor who festival in London 15th November

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 11:08am

      i would imagine so

  • Doctorfan

    July 12th, 2015 - 10:40am

    Wait the purple shirt doctors from robot of Sherwood so where’s the alternative glove hand spoon

  • RORY DOCTOR RIVER POND

    July 12th, 2015 - 10:30am

    Hang on, are these not one offs?

    • DoctorSong2013

      July 12th, 2015 - 10:33am

      No, it’s a new collectors series, we will probably only have 3-4 figures per wave and it is said to be based of new who only but that could always change

    • RORY DOCTOR RIVER POND

      July 12th, 2015 - 11:22am

      Wow! How often would we get waves or is that just random?

    • booboo

      July 12th, 2015 - 11:24am

      I think you may only see a handful a year – IF they sell

      I feel sure we will see Missy and the 8th Doctor somewhere down the line

  • TheAgeOfUltron

    July 12th, 2015 - 10:16am

    My guess is that if Character do the latest version of the Cybermen in the Collector’s Series they could include a Cyber Danny head.

    • Bigwhofan

      July 12th, 2015 - 10:40am

      I wish they would do monster 3 packs in 5 inch, such as..

      SERIES 6
      Madame Kovarian (with Melody Pond Cot)
      Headless Monk (with Sword)
      Flesh Ganger (with Spear)

      SERIES 7
      Ice Warrior (with Removable Helmet)
      7B Cyberman
      Zygon

      SERIES 8
      Missy (with Laser Device & Umbrella)
      The Foretold
      The Teller

      I also believe Series 4 and 6 could do with more figures, since there aren’t many of them in comparison to Series 1-3 and 5

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