September 15th, 2023
1,504 comments
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Doctor Who The Collection Season 20 Limited Edition Packaging
Available to order from www.amazon.co.uk, www.zavvi.com and various retailers on www.ebay.co.uk
BBC Studios continues to offer Doctor Who fans the opportunity to build their own home archive on Blu-ray with a limited edition NINE DISC box set of the 20th Season from 1983, starring Peter Davison as the Fifth Doctor. This set is the most jam-packed release yet, with hours and hours of new and exclusive material.
- Arc Of Infinity
- Snakedance
- Mawdryn Undead
- Terminus
- Enlightenment
- The King’s Demons
- The Five Doctors (20th Anniversary Special)
Celebrating the 20th Anniversary of the programme, these stories feature the return of old friends, enemies and even past Doctors! Over seven exciting stories, the Fifth Doctor, Nyssa (Sarah Sutton), Tegan (Janet Fielding) and Turlough (Mark Strickson) face off against the Black Guardian, Omega, the Mara, the Master, Cybermen and the Time Lords themselves!
All episodes have been newly remastered from the best available sources including original film elements for The Five Doctors – these classic adventures have never looked or sounded so good on home media.
The Collection: Season 20 Blu-ray box set also includes extensive Special Features including:
THE FIVE DOCTORS – 40TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION
- A brand new version of the 90-minute anniversary special, with updated special effects,
- Dolby Atmos & surround sound, plus an exclusive new commentary with Peter Davison, Janet Fielding and Mark Strickson.
UPDATED 2023 SPECIAL EFFECTS
- Exclusive to Blu-ray, on Snakedance and Enlightenment.
BEHIND THE SOFA
- Seven new episodes with Peter Davison, Colin Baker (The Doctor), Sylvester McCoy (The Doctor),
- Sarah Sutton, Janet Fielding, Mark Strickson, Katy Maning (Jo) and Sophie Aldred (Ace).
BLU-RAY TRAILER
- A brand new episode of classic Doctor Who.
IN CONVERSATION
- Interviewer Matthew Sweet chats to Janet Fielding and Sarah Sutton.
LET’S GO DUTCH!
- The TARDIS crew travel to Amsterdam to revisit locations and reminisce about Season 20 and their time on the programme.
LOOK WHO’S DRIVING
- Join Peter Davison, Janet Fielding and Sarah Sutton on an hilarious European Road Trip.
WHEN JANET MET MARTIN
- Janet Fielding chats to Martin Clunes, 40 years on from his appearance in Snakedance.
MAKING THE KING’S DEMONS
- The regular cast return to the castle location and reminisce.
MAKING THE SEASON 20 TRAILER
- A look behind the scenes
LONGLEAT CELEBRATION FOOTAGE
- A previously-unreleased look at the iconic 1983 convention, plus panels featuring Peter Davison, Tom Baker, Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee and many more.
STUDIO FOOTAGE
- Hours of material going behind-the-scenes on production of Arc Of Infinity, Snakedance and The Five Doctors.
LOCATION FILM RUSHES
- From The Five Doctors.
RARE CONVENTION FOOTAGE
- Including Australian interviews with Peter Davison and Janet Fielding shot during production of this season.
ONCE UPON A TIME LORD
- A rare US documentary from the 1980s.
NEW 5.1 SURROUND SOUND MIXES
- On Snakedance and The Five Doctors. Plus Dolby Atmos mixes on The Five Doctors.
ARCHIVE TREATS
- Hours of rare and previously unreleased material from the BBC Archives.
HD PHOTO GALLERIES
- Including many previously unseen images.
INFO TEXT
- Behind-the-scenes information and trivia on every episode.
PDF ARCHIVE
- Including scripts, exclusive unseen BBC production files, the Radio Times 20th Anniversary Special and other rarities.
PLUS LOTS MORE!
This nine-disc box set also includes hours of special features previously released on DVD including Documentaries, Featurettes, Audio Commentaries, The Five Doctors Special Edition and more.
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Jake E
August 7th, 2023 - 6:51pmBig Chief Studios has gone into liquidation!
skaroman
August 7th, 2023 - 5:31pm(Apologies in advance for adding further non-Season-20-related discussion to these comments)
About a month ago I went to a boot fair just for a browse. I bought a limited edition Mr Bean boxset from a vendor with a van-load of physical media (DVDs, Blu-rays etc.). I asked him whether he sold or knew anyone who sold physical film reels as I had a slight interest – I didn’t mention Doctor Who or the BBC, or missing content at all. Immediately the vendor acted more defensively, saying that he couldn’t tell me anything because I wasn’t a collector, and that he did have a collection but it all belonged to him and that it was private. I felt a bit wobbly after that encounter.
Reading the threads on this page and on loads of forums, it’s clear that most private collectors have a completely different outlook than we do. As much as I would love to see more missing episodes returned from their hands, we have the unfortunate hurdle of comprehending a mindset against our own. This isn’t something that can be solved with moaning, complaining and/or hurling abuse at them. It’s easy to accuse collectors of hoarding in the comments section, but let me tell you, when you encounter one in person it does make you feel flabbergasted.
Samuel
August 8th, 2023 - 3:18amFirst of all, total respect to you for having the courage to ask about Film Reels in general and for handling such an uncomfortable encounter like that so well.
To be clear on this, I don’t believe anyone on this news page comments section is hurling abuse at anyone.
The unfair element of this whole situation, as explained via social media by public figures such as Chris Perry, CEO of TV archive
Kaleidoscope, is that there are people out there, in possession of these recordings, that could well deteriorate and really be gone forever – that they themselves could not care less about, but insist on not lending it or selling it, because they simply know it causes upset, dissatisfaction, discomfort for many people that are passionate and do care about this show. What other reason can there possibly be to withold these reels out there, even when there is very little time left to digitise and save them forever, as opposed to losing them forever?
For me, I don’t believe fans should feel ashamed or embarrassed for being passionate for Doctor Who in all of it’s years. We’re reminded every decade about how important all of the 1960’s were, how mind blowingly hard the entire production worked away on these enormous multipart serials. It’s all a part of British history, art, entertainment and culture, and I certainly know of many friends and family that were children watching these early years with total Immersion and wonder.
I’m certainly against any abuse of any kind wherever it may be full stop. However I don’t feel it’s right for Doctor Who fans to bend over backwards or apologize for these so called collectors that would rather lock away these unique film reels while just waiting for them to die in a dark corner. That is of course the collector’s choice, but like heck am I going to condone that treatment of something that I would consider simply irreplaceable.
Once more, good on you for inquiring on the film reels, regardless if it was or wasn’t Doctor Who related. You shouldn’t have to be made to feel wobbly or uncomfortable for simply asking. It sounds like you were more than perfectly polite, and need not deserve such a response that you got.
Good for you.
Jake E
August 8th, 2023 - 9:50amI feel kind of bad for the actors etc. that are like 80+ years old now that wanted to see their work one last time or at least have the knowledge that other people can enjoy their work.
That’s what these “collectors” are taking away
Anonymous
August 8th, 2023 - 8:21pmGenuinely would feel so scared to ask anyone about film reels. It’s an expensive and daunting hobby. I would love to get into it and hey if I found something like missing episodes of any programme that’d be great. But I genuinely feel some of these “film collectors” can be some of the harshest people out there. I don’t think I’ll get into collecting anything like that. However I’m very happy to share the love I have for my collection with those who are interested.
Back to season 20 im excited for the hours of convention footage!
Duncan
August 3rd, 2023 - 9:34pmIf there are collectors sat on orphan episodes that seems a real shame. If I had some the thought of the pleasure that so many people would get if I handed them over – well, Id give them like a shot. I would so love to see an episode or two of The Smugglers. Amongst others.
Oh well. What can we do ? At least we’ve got this boxset to look forward to. I’m not a huge fan of season 20 BUT I wasn’t much of a fan of season 22 either, yet when I snagged a copy of that, I found myself really enjoying it. Colin is such a lovely man and I wish in hindsight that he had at least another season.
Anyway, the extras on this look fantastic and I personally can never get enough Peter, Janet and the adorable Sarah. Roll on release day !
Anonymous
August 4th, 2023 - 2:57pmNot gonna lie. I agree it would be nice, but surely the person who owned it should be paid… after all, once upon a time BBC didnt care enough to keep them – and if they want them back now, then the person who owns them should get a payment for it. BBC aren’t charitable… charging for a licence fee and then creating a streaming service with already paid for shows (although its not around anymore)
Gordon
August 7th, 2023 - 7:22amThe licence fee wasn’t used to create the streaming service. It was bbc studios (buisness arm of the bbc). Bbc studios also had to pay for the usage and royalties for the use of these programs.
Jake E
August 2nd, 2023 - 1:22pmChris Perry, CEO of the TV archive
Kaleidoscope:
“We know where there is missing Doctor Who out there but the owners won’t return it at the moment.”
Gordon
August 2nd, 2023 - 1:32pmNothing new there. Phil morris and Paul Paul Vanezis have both said words to similar effect
Samuel
August 2nd, 2023 - 1:34pmThere we have it. How very, very sad (*cough* pathetic), but at least we know there’s more out there.
Eventually when we get this footage, I hope Chris Perry’s quote is printed all over the home media booklets. Future fans will read about this hoarding and laugh at the utter absurdity of the mindset.
At least the BBC rightly gets the blame for having destroyed its own collection, but it’s high time these hoarders are called out alongside them. Reminds me of The Ninth Doctor summing up The Slitheen’s motive, “Profit”
Gordon
August 2nd, 2023 - 2:04pmTo be honest I wouldn’t pay too much attention to what has been said. It’s stuff that’s been repeated for years by others. The timing of the interview Chris has done for the independent and the colourisation announcement is all clearly done to hype up the missing believed wiped event at the bfi southbank this Saturday.
Rex Farrel
August 2nd, 2023 - 3:13pmBut Gordon, would you always believe everything those two gents said? For different reasons, and not claiming anything as malicious, I would have skeptical thoughts crossing my mind…
Anonymous
August 2nd, 2023 - 4:19pmyes but to some its also about owning something that noone else can see or own and some people can be very proprietorial and its not always about profit. Some might never let their prized possessions ever see the light of day.
The BBC junked its own archive stock so they are mostly to blame citing lack of space. You cant blame the private collector.
scotel
August 2nd, 2023 - 6:07pmNothing to do with profit, more likely fear of the BBC and other companies coming in and destroying their precious collections and people going online calling them evil and selfish and deserving of punishment is clearly going to help that matter.
Gordon
August 2nd, 2023 - 6:31pmI do think there is some people out there with private episodes but till those episodes get handed back believe it when you see it announced. For example People seem to take it as gospel that web of fear ep 3 is out there still. It was out there 12 years ago but a lot could have happened to it in that time frame. Whoever had it it may have been sold on lost or stolen. Could also have been damaged beyond repair. A lot could have happened to it.
Anonymous
August 2nd, 2023 - 7:13pmI can’t fathom why these private collectors and the BBC couldn’t come to some arrangement where the collectors keep their footage but allow the BBC to do the necessary work to create a copy that can be released to the public. It’s a win win situation just waiting to happen
Gordon
August 2nd, 2023 - 7:24pmThat’s pretty much what the bbc do offer. In most cases return it in a better state than the bbc received it in
Anonymous
August 2nd, 2023 - 8:24pmThe missing episode situation is genuinely painful
Pete X
August 2nd, 2023 - 9:05pmWhat is reported in the Independent article is not the same as that in the Radio Times article.
In the RT, CP doesn’t mention “dozens” of lost episodes but comments on the likelihood of episodes being returned in the future.
And in regard of the Independent’s “…are known to exist in some form.” Yes they do, they are all in audio form with some episodes represented by clips used in other programmes, or excised by censors, or u-matic recordings. Many have off-air photographs.
Gordon
August 2nd, 2023 - 10:34pmTo be fair in the independent Chris Perry doesn’t actually claim that it’s dozens of episodes. It’s the independent itself that claims that.
Samuel
August 3rd, 2023 - 1:32am@Anonymous – So let’s assume these missing reels of film are too fragile to watch back, or otherwise sitting in a poor condition environment therefore deteriorating.
What Collector mindset, or some in particular, the, for better word, twerps, that openly admit to not even liking Doctor Who at all, continue to hoard these tapes, no interest to sell the tapes, as you’ve suggested, has no idea what’s on the tapes, has zero respect for the hardworking men and women that put those episodes together in the 1960’s, the stories themselves having been treated like dirt by the BBC – only for that work to be further disrespected and left to rot at the hands of very selfish people. No purpose whatsoever, except to censor the work of those hundreds of people from ever being seen visually ever again, for as long as possible, just to get a thrill out of inflicting as much discontent as is possible.
So what if they’re getting flak on social media thanks to Chris Perry? Good on the lad, I’d buy him a pint for that. Well said, well deserved. Finally the likes of Twitter have found a very useful purpose in spreading that quote, and every other similar story about hoarded Doctor Who footage through social media feeds. Naming and shaming most of the real culprits behind this historic piece of British television from being censored, and blocked.
To think that relatives, friends, many many people around the World that were children in 1964-69, wishing they could relive more of that specific era of the show. Directly hoarding these films is to disrespect them all, especially while at the exact same time admit to not giving a toss as to what you’re even hoarding, and knowing that hoarding causes distress.
Losers, the lot of them.
Scotel
August 3rd, 2023 - 5:35am@Samuel
So here’s a hypothetical for you. Imagine somebody comes into possession of one of these episodes, maybe a relative has passed and they look some stuff up online. What do they find? A bunch of angry nerds calling their dead dad a loser for not catering to their selfish desire to watch some dodgy old TV show? Yeah, not touching that with a barge pole, straight in the skip with it all.
These are human beings we’re talking about, not some evil super villain but the more the fan base keeps on at them like that, why on earth would anyone want to deal with people like that? Throwing a tantrum is not winning over anyone, its just going to push people further away and any potential recovery with them.
If we do get anything back then that’s brilliant and I would love to see it, but acting like we are entitled to it makes us no better than the picture you are painting.
Samuel
August 3rd, 2023 - 9:57am@Scotel – Well I disagree with pretty much all of what you’ve just said;
I specifically called ‘hoarders’ losers, those that know they have missing film of Doctor Who, don’t care for it and have zero personal value for what they have, but *still* refuse to share the content, even when offered a disgustingly large amount of money.
So let’s make that very important distinction there first and foremost; I am *not* referring to anyone innocently finding missing film of Doctor Who by total surprise, and sharing it. That’s a good thing, obviously.
My curveball to you, is the amount of hardworking men and women both front and behind camera on those long days of recording in the BBC television studios, in the 60’s, to have naturally amassed decades worth of global following and passionate fans, only for their work to have been first junked by their own tv network, but then found by individuals, for calmness sake, that think to themselves “hey, I don’t care what this show is or what’s on it, or what went into making it, I wouldn’t watch it even if I could, but I’ll keep it for myself anyway”.
It’s utterly, utterly disrespectful, and the mind truly boggles at how anyone with that mindset, in possession of something so important to the rest of the World in ways you seemingly can’t imagine, let alone have respect for yourself by calling us all ‘angry nerds’ can just selfishly keep it for themselves, while the film itself naturally expires and dies over time.
People all over the world love this programme. The people that worked on this programme matter, they are to this day very much relevant. I cannot think of any good reason why you would refuse to share any cans of footage with the Doctor Who community. There’s good and bad in any fandom or general club, but at least we have passion and care, and adore all 60 years of this ‘dodgy old tv show’ that you call, while on a Doctor Who merchandise site. Bravo.
Who is Who?
August 3rd, 2023 - 11:07amSadly the collectors dont care or they would be back at the BBC already. To them it’s probably like owning the only copy of some priceless art work, that nobody will get to see.
Anonymous
August 3rd, 2023 - 11:40amIt makes me chuckle when Who fans paint the BBC as mistreating and carelessly losing missing episodes. The TV culture when these episodes were aired was disposable. TV was made as one-off (like theatre) and hardly repeated. Those making TV never expected their work to be watched 60 years later. How great that some of it is!? Reels were expensive, so why hold on to film that wouldn’t air again when you could use it to make new programmes. It wasn’t really until home media where the culture shifted. They may have lacked foresight, but so did the whole industry.
Gordon
August 3rd, 2023 - 12:07pmSome collectors simply don’t know the value in what they have. If they are not doctor who fans they are simply unaware of how valuable it is. Got plenty of friends that are non doctor who fans that wouldn’t have a clue that anything of the show was missing. Terry Burnett had no idea he had lost doctor who episodes till Ralph montagu mentioned that there was missing episodes. Maybe Not the best thing to trash people that keep missing episodes online especially if there is people out there that may find out about missing episodes that have them and look up and see a ton of abuse. Could put people off
Samuel
August 3rd, 2023 - 1:07pm@Gordon – Right, so please let me be clear again in what I was making the important distinction on here;
I am specifically referring to an individual that finds missing footage, knows exactly what it is, admits openly to having zero care in the world for it, but insist on keeping that footage to themselves for as long as they live or until the footage deteriorates as is gone forever.
That specific description above, to me, is a crystal clear definition of a total loser.
Rory
August 3rd, 2023 - 1:13pm@Who is Who, it’ll have “This is a fake” written in felt tip on the canvas.
Gordon
August 3rd, 2023 - 1:32pmThat maybe the case but still maybe not the best idea to rip into hoarders if you want genuine people to come forward. Some genuine people may feel put off by seeing such comments.
Jake E
August 3rd, 2023 - 4:12pmChris Perry:
“I don’t talk to Mr Vanezis and Mr Morris so I don’t know who they are referring to in their statements. But I do know who I am referring to. That’s all I can say publicly.”
Anonymous
August 3rd, 2023 - 8:29pmSo…is that it? Is that really it for Doctor Who’s missing episodes? Still nearly 100 left, couple of episodes known to exist but apparently we’re never getting them ever? Sometimes it really sucks to be a Doctor Who fan.
There’s nothing to hope for, people. It’s all over. Just our luck, isn’t it?
Rex F
August 3rd, 2023 - 9:25pmJake: Perry and Vanezis wouldn’t even chat about the weather…
Bookcollector
August 3rd, 2023 - 9:33pmTwo things.
One, the BBC did not disrespect who. It was a standard practice to wipe programming that would not be repeated or sold on further. All channels across the world did this. You can be as angry as you want but it was not a case of disrespect but commercial sense “at the time” remember that when this was occurring home video was many years away. To all intents and purposes these programmes were worthless. Never to be repeated, never to be sold again abroad and taking up valuable resources in terms of the tapes they were on.
Two, collectors. I know from experience with a collector that often it’s more a case of loving what they have and not wanting their collection split up after they go than greed. In some cases it will be greed or just the knowledge they have items others covert. In the case of the gentleman I knew, he didn’t have any who but did have very rare, lost in fact, 1920’s and 1930’s British movies. His will stated his collection was to be destroyed on his death. And as depressing as it is that’s what happened. His entire collection was burnt. Thousands of film fans destroyed. All records of what was in the collection burnt with them. Madness but that is the collector for you. I argued with him before his death but he could not bare to think of the collection being sold on. Sad but there you go. The basic fact is, yes, there probably are episodes in the hands of collectors, but they are under no legal or (more tenuously) moral obligation to return anything they own to any TV or film company. Abusing them on social media will not make them return things, and as others have said it will simply put off those who might return them if they think they will be subjected to the levels of modern trolling that some who fans have sunk to.
Being angry is pointless. There are some stories that will never be found. We have to accept that. The basic fact is who fans are incredibly lucky. There are no truly missing episodes. Do you realise how rare it is to be able to locate even the soundtracks of missing TV shows? Every single episode of missing who has an existing soundtrack. All of these were released on CD. Many have been animated. The BBC was under no obligation to release the CDs or to animate who. They did. We really should be extremely grateful for how the BBC have treated who. It’s extremely rare. How many other shows have had the love and the money spent on them to recreate missing episodes? So be angry if you want, but it will only make you miserable. Just enjoy what we have and hope we get more in the future.
Rex F
August 4th, 2023 - 2:28amBookcollector: technically speaking, although precedent shows that this is a really, really bad idea to enforce, they do have a responsibility to return the films because they’re handling stolen goods. The contracts stated that the films always remained the property of the BBC (leverage that got access to the ABC censor clips initially, and stopped what was left from being skipped) and unlike in the US your rubbish is not discarded property – you still own it and have intentions for it (disposal). It’s only bad publicity and the risk of future losses that stop Auntie Beeb from carrying out what would become a near kamikaze action. (That, and it not being worth the time and money – think what The Mail would say.)
Jake E
August 4th, 2023 - 8:09amRex F – They may not chat about the weather but they’ve certainly chatted to each other about missing episodes as they were on a panel together recently.
Guys honestly as much as a fan as I am, I do think it’s time to let this go. We are never getting them back. I try to be positive but we aren’t getting them back. Our best hope is to hope for more animations or maybe even advancements in AI.
Just remember this is the BBCs fault haha and at least we have all the audio, majority of the tele-snaps (Only really Season 3 that’s screwed and that season doesn’t do much for me anyway) and now some fantastic animations (all of which I think are fantastic, yes that includes Web of Fear 3).
Be happy 🙂
Auton
August 4th, 2023 - 8:46amWhat’s the point of ‘letting this go’ when we know that there are episodes out there, some fans give up so easily
Bookcollector
August 4th, 2023 - 9:55amCouple of more things.
One. Rex. How to you prove they were stolen? Technically the BBC junked them. You could argue they were abandoned, thrown away, unless you can prove they were stolen I doubt very much they could be forced to return them.
Two. Auton. It’s not a case of giving up. It’s being realistic. Between 1983 and 2003 21 episodes were found. Between 2003 and 2023 12 episodes have been found. And nothing has been returned for a decade now. And this leads us into point three.
Three. Even if there are episodes in the hands of private collections (and yes there probably are), even if they return those episodes, there is one important point. Condition. There is no guarantee that a returned episode will be in a condition to be commercially released. In order to restore an episode it still has to be in a reasonable condition. If the film has deteriorated it may be unusable in which case you have a tin with a label on it and not much more. Storage is key and many collectors will store things properly but even then they still degrade with time. The space pirates episode 6 is 54 years old. Marco polo episode one is 59 years old. If these exist and have been sitting in a shed, an attic a garage then the chances of them being usable decreases hugely.
I hope we get more returned episodes but frankly the chances are becoming increasingly slim with each passing year. That is not giving up, it’s not being pessimistic. It’s just the reality of the situation.
Gordon
August 4th, 2023 - 10:55amI don’t think you have to let it go. Just don’t get too hyped and caught up about rumours. It takes months sometimes years for these things to bear fruit. It was roundabout march 2011 for web and enemy being found in jos and it took till June 2023 before it was in the U.K. and in the hands of the restoration team. In the plus side these episodes exist and they know exactly where they are. Other episodes they haven’t a clue where to look. There is nothing to say the situation can’t change and they can get access to these episodes in future. It could take years but things change.
In my opinion we should be thankful that it’s only 97 episodes that’s missing. Other shows like crossroads and z cars the total is at least 4-500 minimum. In a lot of those episodes they only have an episode number or title. There are no audio, stills, photos, scripts or any other info on what happens in it. Doctor who still has audio and scripts for all episodes, telesnaps and clips. Doctor who gets animations, reconstructions, novelisations and readings. No other shows gets all that. Would I like the number to go down yes but I appreciate what we do have.
Bookcollector
August 4th, 2023 - 11:30amSo true Gordon. I know people may read my posts and think I’m being negative but I’m not. Yes, there are some episodes out there, we may get them, but as you say it may be years away. We are so lucky the BBC have supported who the way they have. And so lucky we have all episodes existing in some form or other. I hope more will be found but unlike a friend if mine who has refused to buy the animated stories on the grounds he “knows absolutely that they will find all of the episodes” I accept that there are some that will be lost forever. But we have the soundtracks, we have telesnaps, we have photos and clips, we have scripts and the target books, we have animations and reconstructions. As Gordon says, other shows aren’t so lucky. Be grateful for what we have.
Rex Farrel
August 4th, 2023 - 12:07pmBookcollector: That’s the point – if it’s abandoned or thrown away it’s still legally your property, and we know who the BBC sold films to and who could legitimately be holding them (and it wasn’t private citizen Mr Perkins, who “owns” the film now). Ask Bruce Grenville about trying to sell his print, and that wasn’t even a hostile case. Ownership of rubbish is a big thing, it even affects DNA collection here in serious crimes (where the US has it much easier due to different refuse laws). That’s why film collectors are sometimes afraid to reveal what they have, as opposed to people who home recorded.
Anonymous
August 4th, 2023 - 3:52pm97 is only an “only” relative to other shows. On it’s own, it’s still a large number. We’re only just below the hundreds.
The issue I have with the animations is they only make the stories watchable in a conventional sense, all the quirks of 60s Who kinda get lost in the flat 2D animation – which constantly changes in style so 60s Who doesn’t feel any less fragmented when it’s supposedly being “completed,” and especially recently they’ve started embellishing and making changes like they’ve forgotten their original mission statement.
Rex Farrel
August 6th, 2023 - 1:46amMy original replies never materialised, so I’ll try again.
Jake: Are you sure they shared a panel? I can’t find reference online and it would be a major development after 30+ years of, uh, not being best buddies, shall we say.
Bookcollector: That’s the point – something abandoned or thrown away is still legally yours in the UK (causing various issues, even as far as DNA collection in major crime investigations). It’s very much on the owner’s side. We also know who legally held prints because of paperwork, and those were broadcasters rather than Mr Perkins of London W1. It’s why film collectors can be so cagey, and look what happened with Bruce Grenville who was very much a friendly witness (I think eventually RT members directly intervened with Worldwide as then was, making the point that they need to keep collectors on side).
Gordon
August 7th, 2023 - 8:14amExcept there isn’t any mission statement regarding animated episodes. Even as far back as the invasion had changes. The animations are pretty much their own productions especially the animations from 2016 onwards. They aren’t supposed to be 121 recreations. That’s what the reconstructions are for.
Anonymous
August 7th, 2023 - 1:41pmLook, all I want is a consistent product. I just don’t like that they never repeated the approach they had with The Invasion when it was their immediate peak in terms of 2D animation. Pretty much everything about it works. Animation style, character designs, lighting, direction, pace, restraint. The two episodes slot nicely and incongruously into the story so far as even on the DVD menu, they use clips from both the animated and existing episodes in the montage. They even did an overhaul from the original 2005 BBCi version to bring it up to the standards of 1960s Doctor Who. There was room for improvement but in terms of how it approaches bringing the episodes back, The Invasion will probably always be the best one.
Cosgrove Hall were going to do The Ice Warriors in 2007. I think if we had even two animations in this style, maybe it could’ve set a template. Oh well.
Duncan
August 7th, 2023 - 3:57pmIs Paul Paul Vanezis related to Jo Jo Grant ? 🙂
Jake E
August 1st, 2023 - 3:40pmThe Smugglers will get the surviving clips colourised!
Gordon
August 1st, 2023 - 6:02pmAll 47 seconds of it. Kaleidoscope commissioned it so nothing to do with the bbc.
scotel
August 1st, 2023 - 7:22pmSo… where are the Nicola Methven defenders now? Clearly has a source inside but this isn’t the first time wires hae been crossed badly.
James
August 1st, 2023 - 8:32pmMaybe be an extra on the dvd release of animated smugglers.
Rex Farrel
August 1st, 2023 - 9:17pmIt’s their time and money, but those clips are so short that there’s barely time to even percieve them. Personally I’d just use my imagination if I wanted a five second colour clip, and Hartnell’s appearance only lasts about two.
Gordon
August 1st, 2023 - 10:35pm@scotel this doesn’t explain away the underwater menace. Plus we don’t know officially what is being animated as nothing so far has been announced. Also if we are talking about Nicola you got to talk about her hit rate with animations 6 out of 7 and even if she got the number of episodes that was being animated wrong she still got the story correct.
@james I wouldn’t say it being included is likely as it’s not a bbc commissioned project. Not impossible as things could get worked out though.
Gordon
August 6th, 2023 - 1:51amIt wasn’t just colourised smugglers clips that was shown it was tomb and the romans as well as a clip from quatermass and the pit. The tomb and romans clips I suspect are already on YouTube:
Tomb: https://youtu.be/YU6Xc6xGYsE
Romans: https://youtu.be/Ob6cBxSvQcM
Goody
July 31st, 2023 - 11:52pmwhen will the next DW the collection standard edition get announced?
Gordon
August 1st, 2023 - 9:56amShould be some point in the next few months.
Gordon
July 31st, 2023 - 10:34pmToby hadoke was travelling south to film some blu ray extras. Don’t think he was travelling to anywhere specific as He says he doesn’t know what season it’s for. Probably connected to the person Chris chapman spent 8 hours driving to pick up yesterday. He also said it might be 2 years before we find out who it is.
He’s also said: Shout out to WhoRay fans: if you own ANY unique items relating to as-yet-unreleased seasons (or to key actors/crew from those seasons), whether it be photos/models/costumes/interviews/documents/anything, please DM me!
Don’t think we will be getting the 2005 series onwards as part of the collection anytime soon. Richard bignell said today:
We’re only focusing on the original series. There have been absolutely no discussions or indications that we will be doing anything post 2005.
This isn’t too much of a shock. There is still about a dozen seasons and about 4 years of releases to go on the classic collections. Long way to go. Probably way to early to even think about what they are doing post collection.
I Cotterill
July 28th, 2023 - 11:27pmWill the DVD/Blu-Ray list on this site be updated to included Seasons 9 and 20?
https://merchandise.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/features/dvd/
booboo
July 29th, 2023 - 2:33pmi have sent them across to be added
Ian Cotterill
July 30th, 2023 - 9:41pmThanks.
Samuel
July 28th, 2023 - 4:46pm@Jake E – The specific lesterson face close ups were shared on Twitter in 2020; I’ve spent the last couple of hours going through key word results and unfortunately couldn’t find them – which is odd given so many Doctor Who VFX fan editors were sharing so many gif compilations of the leaked telesnaps.
Here is the Bristol auction rooms link to the telesnap lot I’m referring to;
https://www.bristolauctionrooms.co.uk/244-lot-200-Doctor-Who-Telesnap-photographs-of-episodes-of-The-Daleks-from-the-second-series?view=lot_detail&auction_id=69
@Rex – Thank you so much for your detailed reply, very fascinating to read on Vidfire. It’s certainly such a seamless frame technique, helping to revive these missing episodes while making them feel authentic. I think for anyone critisisng Ai when it comes to Doctor Who restorations, well – we’ve kind of already had Ai at least for the last 20 years or so, and it’s worked fine. With refinement and training, more and more is going to become possible.
I recommend giving Harry Robin’s work a look on his Twitter account, mostly regarding his deepfake works;
https://twitter.com/HjRobins/status/1654978696262873090
https://twitter.com/HjRobins/status/1531309835110731777
It’s certainly a valid argument to question the consent and appropriateness of deepfaking. I also think there is a reasonable case to make towards locking the deepfaking onto the telesnaps, in perfect sync with the original audio, with any reference actors strictly following the camera angles and original script, without any sort of reinterpretation whatsoever, as I feel deviating away from the original work that is lost would misrepresent it. The VFX would also have to feel seamless, and as I say that does take time and training, though clearly artists such as Harry Robins are already making huge succesful steps towards this being a reality.
When it comes to hand drawn animation, it is much freer of an art form, but as we’ve discussed many times on this forum, the sheer amount of work, sharp deadlines and finance makes many of the serials, particularly the bigger stories such as Marco Polo or The Dalek’s Master Plan seem unviable to ever be attempted, let alone ever accomplished. That’s not to say I wouldn’t want to see it done, or that fans shouldn’t wish for it, but I’ve got the utmost respect for animators such as Rob Ritchie – I highly, highly recommend his one on one interview with Josh Snares on Evil of The Daleks. As beautiful as the animations are, the entire working environment sounds simply too unhealthy and unmanagable.
One last video I will recommend that fits neatly here with regards to AI animation tools and workload is the Tom Holland Spider-Verse VFX behind the scenes by Corridor Crew
https://youtu.be/QBWVHCYZ_Zs
To conclude – I believe the way future reconstructions need to go, is to find a more viable method, in terms of finance, healthier work management, and of course the most accurate as possible recreation of these missing stories that fully respects the cast and crew originally involved in the 1960s seasons, and builds a sensible appropriate case for further expansion of AI vfx work on Doctor Who.
Jake E
July 28th, 2023 - 5:27pmThanks Samuel I appreciate it.
Wow it went for £1000. I guess it went to a private seller?
I wonder if they’ll let the BBC use them someday, that would be cool 🙂
Rex Farrel
July 28th, 2023 - 6:39pmThe Bristol auction was Chris Barry’s personal set, so those are already out there (and identical to the ones held by the BBC). I think you might have mixed that auction with the Derek Dodd one from 2019? I remember zooming in on the auction pictures for a better view of the b/w film strips, and if you look at the Power special edition I’m pretty sure you’ll find what you’re remembering. There are a few sequences of non-consecutive frames from the Ealing shoot, with Lesterson and Daleks.
Samuel
July 28th, 2023 - 7:33pm@Rex I think you’re correct, as I can’t find the Lesterson telesnaps on the Chris Barry auction that I saw on Twitter.
The twitter .gif posts literally used dozens of snaps so quickly that it looked like something a bit stop motion / old can of film. They were very short gifs but so many snaps of one individual shot that the ai interpolation software Themindrobber used would almost easily fill in the gaps.
I understand with Adobe After Effects, there used to be a morphing interpolation effect, wherby you would pin point exactly where eyes / nose / mouth is on frame 1, then on the last frame pin point those exact body features again, and the software would carefully work out the in-between frames, and if there were any skewing or interpolation errors, usually like one or two – you simply go to that point and pin point where they are supposed to be on the person’s face, and the whole sequence would improve itself and learn – as opposed to having to animate or roto frame by frame, this was more like, 1-3 frames for someone static, or more frames for movement.
Samuel
July 30th, 2023 - 9:29pmJake E
July 31st, 2023 - 8:19amSamuel that’s quite cool. Nice picture quality on the last link too. I see these sold in auction in 2019 and are available on the Blu-ray. Very cool I hadn’t seen these before 🙂
Samuel
July 31st, 2023 - 7:50pm@Jake E – Cheers, I’m just relieved to have found these tweets again.
I have both Blu Ray editions myself and have watched the telesnap recons; I guess I missed the newely recovered snaps on the discs? I’ll have another check tonight if I can. Thanks for the heads up.
Rex F
July 31st, 2023 - 11:37pmI think they’ve been added to the surviving footage clip section, from memory.
JayJohn
August 7th, 2023 - 6:04pmThat’s because those weren’t snaps, but film trims, they’re on the surviving footage in the 2020 potd release.
Jake E
July 28th, 2023 - 10:06amLast night I was watching Season 12 disc 5 Cybermen replacement disc and it’s still missing an optional CGI shot of the rocket.
Is this the case with your replacement disc?
Has the BBC addressed this? Is it corrected on the Standard release?
D84
July 28th, 2023 - 11:05amI have the same Jake, I think in 1 or 2 shots – after selecting “New CGI Effects” at the menu you still get the previous version effects – although not in all those shots, just a couple
I emailed off and never got a response so have just kept it as is.
I got the 2nd Edition of S12 too that came out in early 2020 as I missed the original release
Rex Farrel
July 28th, 2023 - 12:28pmAll the “fixed” UK discs are like this. I guess they didn’t fancy another repress.
Samuel
July 27th, 2023 - 7:43pmI concur with Jake E – The draft VFX demo for Power of the Daleks reconstruction by TheMindRobber is really impressive.
Essentially wasn’t vidfire an ai that interpreted missing frames from surviving footage of 60’s Who? If so then why is this particular idea any different towards restoring missing serials?
One perfect example to try out is the most recently discovered telesnaps of Lesterson finding the Dalek conveyor belt. Like most newly found material, fans like us aren’t allowed a look in, but with thanks to the good old auction website for leaking smaller resolution thumbnails of the snaps. With ai upscaling to the quality of Josh Snares’ work, we’ve essentially got as good as the original photos on hand. Several snapshots from a single camera angle on Lesterson’s facial expressions. Potentially this frame interpretation software could deliver an almost fully lifelike output shot.
One further point – ever since The Invasion animation in 2008, studio footage is recorded for reference shots, such as walking characters etc. So therefore what’s stopping an animation studio from recording reference shots of walking/ talking characters, and use those references as data for this ai software to use towards animating these telesnaps? Refine selections for characters, backgrounds, using only the telesnaps + original source production photos.
With all of this ai upscaling and frame interpretation software now in existence, I just wonder if this really is the actual future of reconstructions, given the amount of money and over-working by hand that goes into animation.
Jake E
July 28th, 2023 - 8:13amWhat’s this about newly found tele-snaps?
How many are there? Who bought them? When/ where did they go up for sale?
Rex Farrel
July 28th, 2023 - 1:27pmJake: It sounds like the cut film frames belonging to the late production designer, included on the special edition re-release. Unless even more images of Lesterson watching the conveyor have turned up.
Rex Farrel
July 28th, 2023 - 1:51pmSamuel: You’re right, and Vidfire ended up as more than that… Vidfire Mark 1 used Twixtor interpolation software to generate in-between images which could then be reinterlaced with the original frames to create a discreet 50i video. Vidfire mark 2 generates the inbetweens, discards the original frames, then generates inbetweens of the inbetweens to produce a smoother, consistent sharpness 50i video – so every field of studio-sourced material is now effectively AI generated. (I also agree that telesnaps plus new reference footage is going to be a big part of the future for recons – and sooner than we’d expect probably, because similar software is already out there.)
Jake E
July 27th, 2023 - 11:16amGuys this is insane! This will be the future of tele-snap reconstructions for sure. We will have to re-buy all the Blu-Rays in the future 🙂
https://twitter.com/themindrobber/status/1684236360763289605?s=46&t=S1Tfk3g8ie0b6r0v0SSHXQ
Anomie
July 27th, 2023 - 11:47amTell us what it is Jake, I refuse to use musk’s Twitter.
booboo
July 27th, 2023 - 11:51amyou dont really need to use it to see it
Jake E
July 27th, 2023 - 11:52amSome guy has used tele-snaps from a missing episode and with the use of AI it looks really, really close to making you think it was a real clip.
A bit more fine tuning and then this will practically give us the missing episodes back. I mean I would even accept it as it is now over the normal still images 🙂
Bookcollector
July 27th, 2023 - 11:55amDefinitely got potential but not sure I’d buy stories I already have as reconstructions (the animated discs reconstructions) but for as yet undone stories… hmmm.
Gordon
July 27th, 2023 - 1:09pmGot a long way to go. Needs a lot of refinement if I’m honest, looks promising though
Anon
July 27th, 2023 - 2:44pmAs Gordon says, there is a long way to go and will it be commercially viable? Depends on how expensive it is to make it accurate enough to please fans (a very, very tall order!) And of course it can only be used for those stories that feature telesnaps. How viable is it to create say, the missing episode of Marco polo that has no telesnaps? There is potential but don’t get too excited, any chance of doing this professionally for commercial release will be a long way off yet.
Jake E
July 27th, 2023 - 3:43pmI agree Anon and Gordon but it’s an exciting idea.
Anon I don’t expect it to be able to do anything with completely missing episodes that have zero or nearly zero tele-snaps. Whatever it may be able to come up with would be far too incorrect to be worth it. I’m sure the episode would have to have many, many tele-snaps for this to be viable
Rex Farrel
July 27th, 2023 - 5:30pmAt low res with some manual tweaks, I think there’s already potential there because some decent key frames are being generated. Certainly enough to come up with some new images for future recons.
I’m surprised that more isn’t being talked about in relation to Deepfake technologies though – because of the talky nature of so many scenes I think that replica costumes, Deepfake faces and green screen/CGI sets could cover a fair chunk of some episodes. The separate elements are already there, we just need someone to organise and combine them. Degraded to 377 or 576 lines with some noise or grain, like the reshot bit of The Time Meddler, the result could be quite pleasing (moreso than Web 3 for some people? ).
Jake E
July 27th, 2023 - 6:46pmRex, I think I’m the only person out there that likes Web of Fear Episode 3 animation haha. Is it perfect? No. Do I prefer 2D animation? Yes. But I liked it for what it was. That with some refinement I reckon might have been ok for other animations (if that’s the only way to get them animated)
Anon
July 27th, 2023 - 7:07pmRex that would still cost a considerable amount of money to do. You’d have to hire actors to play the characters, make costumes, etc. Then the costs of actually deepfaking not to mention the legal mire that deepfaking actors would produce. You would have to get legal permission from all actors or actors estates to do it. For stories made in the sixties you would be hard pressed to locate and negotiate terms with all involved.
Oh, Jake, I liked the web animation as well. Yeah, it isn’t perfect, but it does the job and everytime I’ve rewatched it it gets better for me. As a first attempt at the style it is a tryout. If they continued with it it would improve with each release.
Prowl 1701
July 27th, 2023 - 7:40pmGotta admit, that looks really neat. Curious to see what is done with it.
Jake E
July 27th, 2023 - 8:12pmIf you look at his YouTube channel there’s a couple other great examples from a year or 2 ago that include the original audio incorporated 🙂
Anonymous
July 27th, 2023 - 9:13pmAhh just imagine, a refined version of this process for all the stories with telesnaps, with gaps filled in by other methods like the odd bit of refilming on the level of 2017 Shada or the missing 12 seconds of The Time Meddler on the S2 box set to polish it all up, we could have missing episodes watchable like existing episodes. So much promiseee
Rex Farrel
July 28th, 2023 - 3:04pmAnon: It needn’t be an official recon, we’re at the point where talented amateurs create decent work – and as I said, everything needed for some scenes already exists, it’s a matter of bringing the different fans together instead of doing separate projects.
If it was official, which admittedly has more potential cans of worms, I can still see ways around a lot of it. The actors don’t have to be union here, so any Tom, Dick or Harry can be the model (possibly the animators). Representatives are contacted anyway for a release, with only a handful of problems up to now (where the money goes in the holding account) and if an actor is deceased then Equity concerns over AI can be danced around (although this usage isn’t want the unions on either side of the pond are concerned about when permissions are given – e.g. young Arnie in the Terminator sequels). Replica costumes already exist for a number of characters, and others could come from stock – historical or military wouldn’t be a huge problem. Obviously a whole episode would be expensive (but possibly still less than animation), but scenes are definitely doable to break up the still images.
Jake E
July 26th, 2023 - 10:27amI see when I click on the Amazon link for Season 20 it says 6,000+ Sold in the last month.
That’s interesting so that plus the other sites that sell it might mean this one sells out soon after release for the first time in forever. Maybe
I do think some of the latest reviews for it on Amazon are odd to say the least. One gave it 3 stars for including The Five Doctors. They believe it should have had a separate release. Another gave it five stars but questions why they don’t add Marco Polo to the extras and why Hartnell wasn’t up for being in The Five Doctors and why instead they went for someone alive.
Weird trolls out there guys haha 🙂
Jake E
July 26th, 2023 - 10:51amI could be wrong but I seem to recall on Amazon for Season 2 it said 2,000+ sold within the first month.
So for Season 20 to sell that much in less than 2 weeks is quite impressive. Possibly the power of the 60th Anniversary in play here
Prof Horner
July 26th, 2023 - 12:09pmWell this is interesting. Season 20 in my opinion is probably one of dullest season ever in terms of stories. But they really seem to have pushed the boat out to make this a worthy anniversary year release. Plus the long wait we have had for another Davison season makes it a winner. Well done to all concerned. It boads well for future releases.
Bobby Fackrell
July 26th, 2023 - 8:22pmIt’s no season 25 is it Prof?
Jake E
July 26th, 2023 - 8:08amI don’t know if people know but Disney is exiting Physical Media in Australia!
I think you guys aren’t going to get much physical media in the future then and for example Doctor Who Collection sets prices will sky rocket as they already have (I’m aware that’s not Disney)
iamthemaster
July 26th, 2023 - 11:34amDisney have the broadcast rights outside the UK. The release of physical Doctor Who media is nothing to do with them.
Jake E
July 26th, 2023 - 11:37amI’m aware I’m just saying Disney cancelling all their physical media in Australia is just the start
Rex Farrel
July 26th, 2023 - 2:12pmThey’ve already stopped in Germany – and signed a deal with another company to handle it for them, in the same way Warner handle Universal Home Entertainment here in the UK. Disney will sign a deal with a bigger Aussie company to do the actual work for them.
Jake E
July 26th, 2023 - 3:05pmMaybe but I’m not convinced Rex. Disney have pulled out of other countries and not had anyone do it for them instead.
Disney are actively trying to kill physical media. They want it gone and for everyone to subscribe to Disney+.
Anomie
July 26th, 2023 - 5:43pmWell it just means I won’t get to continue the franchises I’ve followed for years. Disney stop allowing you to buy DVDs I’ll not be paying a monthly rental charge for the few films I would like to own. Especially when they can just pull them from the platform with no warning. It’s bizarre to me that companies like Disney are going backwards to a time when piracy was rife simply because there was a demand for physical releases. No official way to own films and series just increases the piracy market.
Jake E
July 26th, 2023 - 6:02pmAgreed Anomie. And it’s not like streaming services such as Disney+ are doing any good. Since people have gone back to work the subscriptions have gone down tremendously.
I think Netflix lost billions in a single day last week I read somewhere
Anon
July 26th, 2023 - 6:56pmNetflix dropped 2 million in a quarter year in the USA and Canada it was announced a week ago.
Jake E
July 26th, 2023 - 7:04pmAnon, I wasn’t referring to subscriber lost.
Netflix lost 18 billion in value in a single day 5 days ago
Anon
July 26th, 2023 - 7:24pmWow! And Disney apparently is doing great either
Anon
July 26th, 2023 - 8:11pmOops, that should be isn’t! I know they reported losses of $890 million dollars on their last 8 releases and Disney + lost 4 million subscribers recently
Samuel
July 27th, 2023 - 4:04am@Jake E – As I understand it, Doctor Who’s media range shouldn’t be affected in the longer term.
The real problems will be the streaming sites themselves. The main players such as Disney, Amazon and Netflix have enjoyed such a broad subscribership, mostly due to original content.
In recent years, I’d say those companies are gradually now depending on fanbases, specifically linked to their existing content, rather than the broad audience / customers that they boasted in the past.
For me personally, I’ve relied on Amazon for Downtown Abbey catching up, Disney plus for Marvel, Netflix for Stranger Things.
Stranger Things Season 5 is now officially the only original content that I’m looking forward to see now. So for me it’s a case of a very short subscription time before completely quitting paid streaming altogether. If Netflix veto a physical Stranger Things 1-5 boxset, that’s their loss as I’d happily pre order it.
So yeah, even with Doctor Who on Disney plus, I still believe the next year or so is going to be a really rough patch for them, not necessarily Doctor Who itself.
Though I will say this – they’d better flipping well not give up on this rumoured Series 1-13 set. Absolute perfect gem of an idea.
Jake E
July 27th, 2023 - 8:24amSeries 1-13 Blu-Ray is up for pre-order
D84
July 27th, 2023 - 9:16amOMG Jake where?
UK Release?
Details details
booboo
July 27th, 2023 - 9:19amUSA release including titans https://shop.bbc.com/products/doctor-who-limited-edition-complete-new-who-colllectors-blu-ray-24109?nosto=best-sellers
Jake E
July 27th, 2023 - 10:43amD84 it’s a Limited Edition with a numbered certificate. Only 6,000 made.
BBC won’t ship to the UK so I bought it via hdmoviesource.com. I asked them to list it
Muz
July 29th, 2023 - 7:40amThis is so frustrating. Amazon UK and Zavvi won’t ship to Australia and it’s not available locally so… it’s just not available I guess? For now?
Anon
July 25th, 2023 - 6:31pmI think I can guarantee new animations being announced. Why? Because I finally decided to get the reconstruction DVDs. I guarantee you the day the last one arrives they will announce new animations! So far I have bought the crusade, mission to the unknown, the celestial toymaker and the wheel in space along with dimensions in time and curse of the fatal death. Arriving this week are Marco polo, the myth makers, the massacre and the space pirates. Plan to get the remaining four by the end of August so no doubt the animation announcements will be in September!
Jake E
July 25th, 2023 - 7:54pmThank you for your service sir
Anon
July 25th, 2023 - 9:25pmAnything to oblige…
Rex Farrel
July 26th, 2023 - 2:18pmYou’re not meant to buy the recons, they’re meant to be shared freely. I hope you’ve not been charged more than a blank dvd-r and postage…
Jake E
July 26th, 2023 - 4:43pmGood point Rex. These are all free on a certain legal streaming site. You don’t need to be buying anything unless you are referring to DVD front covers made by fans?
Anon
July 26th, 2023 - 5:45pmDon’t do streaming. Price is really low for physical DVD
Anon
July 26th, 2023 - 5:52pmTechnically I’m buying the box and cover, the DVD is free.
Lewis frisby
July 22nd, 2023 - 7:23pmSo is the release date September 18th
D84
July 22nd, 2023 - 9:01pmThat date appears in a couple of places although I’ve had nothing charge on my Amazon pre order just yet.
Still states “no release date”
Gordon
July 22nd, 2023 - 10:24pmAs far as I know it is. The bfi screening of five doctors is on the 16th
Jake E
July 22nd, 2023 - 10:29pmThe BFI is doing a screening of The Five Doctors on Saturday 16th September so a release date of 18th Sept for the Season 20 Blu-Ray is very plausible 🙂
D84
July 22nd, 2023 - 10:33pmAn thanks guys.
A confirmed BFI screening of a story from the set usually preceeds the release date by a week or so.
Release on 18th Sept only 2 days after the BFI event wouldn’t be impossible so I guess the 18th Sept it is likely to be
Gordon
July 22nd, 2023 - 10:49pmThe abominable snowman animation was debuted 2 days before release as well so it’s release is very possible
D84
July 22nd, 2023 - 10:56pmThanks Gordon
With that in mind then I would say yes a release on 18th Sept is highly likely
Jake E
July 23rd, 2023 - 9:16amBlooming heck Gordon beat me by 5 mins haha 🙂
He’s got a habit of doing that
Jake E
July 19th, 2023 - 1:17pmI was just thinking how do people think they will do the behind the sofa for Seasons 3-5?
I imagine Season 3 will be mostly skipped but it would be nice for Seasons 4 & 5 if they could react to some of the animations. It would be cool to see the original actors react to animated versions of themselves 🙂
Basil Funkenstein
July 19th, 2023 - 9:44pmExcellent question man. Really thought provoking. Is it possible that any budget for stories from seasons 3-6 that aren’t animated or sufficiently telesnapped might be missed on the Behind the Sofa extras and will be used for other extras on other seasons boxsets instead?
I’d love to see Behind the Sofas for animated stories, that would be incredible. I do sincerely hope that one day we will have an animated representation for all missing stories from seasons 1-6. My most wanted stories are Marco Polo, Celestial Toymaker, Daleks Masterplan with Mission to the Unknown included, The Highlanders, Underwater Menace, Wheel in Space, and Space Pirates.
James
July 20th, 2023 - 10:58amBasil..hope they do animate them all then have a full visual representation of them.maybe be bit fitehr down the line to get them all. Except season 3 as cant get away with The zcollection if its full of just recon/telesnaps and audio. Mission could be use the Uni version as it’s the closest we’ll get plus save money for animating other stories instead, just ass the audio on as an extra
Ryan
July 20th, 2023 - 2:04pmAre people against the idea of live action remakes ? Take a similar approach to UCLAN and use the old techniques and technologies with new actors or the ones from the drama-doc if they wanted too cone back for the stories to be represented visually, or are people really against this ?
Rex F
July 20th, 2023 - 2:41pmRyan: ££££££££££
Gordon
July 20th, 2023 - 2:43pmThe cost of doing that in a professional level would be more expensive than animation. Plus no matter how good they are they can ever replicate what was there originally.
James
July 20th, 2023 - 3:47pmUnless they did a one off like for DMP. Sure David would be up for a return for a full story’s. Fill a massive gap in season 3.
James
July 20th, 2023 - 3:51pmSaying that as Marco polo is such a big story with locations, costumes and characters. Could redo this aswell. Us the actors who played Ian, Barbara and Ian in adventure in space and time. Then season 1 would be fully visually done. Add the soundtrack of the story as an extra.
Gordon
July 20th, 2023 - 4:37pmCan’t help but feel if they ever did this they would need to hire new people different from the adventure and space and time cast. Nothing against them butHartnell was 55-57 years old when he played him. David Bradley is currently 81. A couple of seconds cameo in power of the doctor is fine but a whole adventure of him running around I feel you would need someone younger for that. Would you have 16 year old Susan played by 38 year old Claudia grant or Julian glover who is 15 years older than what William Russell was when he originally played ian or Jemma Powell which is about a decade older than Jaqueline. Plus there is the whole availability thing. David is very busy by all accounts (so busy that big finish have plans for him but have been unable to have the time for him to record anything)
Basil Funkenstein
July 20th, 2023 - 8:04pmI think sticking with animations is the way to go moving forward with the show and the missing stories.
Anonymous
July 21st, 2023 - 12:16amJamie you mean not julian.
James
July 21st, 2023 - 10:51amGordon…age is only a number. Agree with animations just be nice to see another old lost story remained live like the Uni did with Mission
Gordon
July 21st, 2023 - 12:17pmNot when it’s something age specific
Bobby Fackrell
July 24th, 2023 - 2:41pmJamie Glover?
No he means Julian.
They only watch clips on Behind the Sofa so incomplete stories should not be an issue
Anonymous
July 24th, 2023 - 3:26pmHow is julian Glover 15 years older than what William Russell was when he took on the role. Julian is 89. Jamie is julians son.
Anonymous
July 24th, 2023 - 7:01pm3D animations are the way to go. If we’re never gonna see these episodes again, do them right.
Gordon
July 24th, 2023 - 7:03pmFunny thing I definitely typed out Jamie. No idea how it came out as Julian
Anonymous
July 24th, 2023 - 7:09pmI know you meant jamie, Gordon. We all make the odd typing mistake. Any news on that swiss site for a season 17 standard release date?
Gordon
July 24th, 2023 - 8:08pmHaven’t heard anything yet.
Gregor
July 18th, 2023 - 4:09pmAnyone have any speculations about this first doctor home media release Ian leavin is hinting at ?something that hasn’t leaked so not the mirror reported colourations or smuggles animation
NoMore
July 18th, 2023 - 4:33pmCelestial toymaker at a guess as it would turn up just when the BBC need it most, if the rumoured villain for the anniversary is that.
daz
July 18th, 2023 - 4:57pmThey might have been animating it since the 60th finished filming if RTD has had any input into future releases.
Be a great tie in release in October… Maybe.
Gordon
July 18th, 2023 - 11:02pmHe actually wasn’t teasing anything going by a comment on his Facebook:
Look, it’s a feeling not based on fact. My guess is either The Underwater Menace or The Wheel In Space. But I must stress to you that this is nothing more than guesswork. Not based on any fact or any leak.
Sgt. Rugg
July 19th, 2023 - 8:27pmApparently on Gallifrey Base he said that someone who he considered a “very reliable source” had told him an animation of Toymaker was being worked on to tie in with the 60th anniversary specials. I don’t have a GB account though, so I am only reading part of the conversation.
Gordon
July 19th, 2023 - 9:21pmHe pretty much said the celestial toymaker animation was fact but didn’t specify how he knows other than he has powerful contacts. He also seems to think Gary Russell is doing it which is annoying him no end.
On the prospect of Ian he posted today on his Facebook group that he is currently looking for people to help finance the missing stories that is currently working on (he mentioned work has already started on the massacre and he’s got friends working on masterplan, savages,the crusade and he’s looking for people to animate myth makers and Marco Polo). He says he thinks a 4 parter can be done for £20,000 (seems a little low for my liking). He’s currently looking for people to chip in at least £100 (no that’s not a typo) but there is talk of a gofundme possibly starting.
Rex Farrel
July 20th, 2023 - 8:29amPlease will someone seriously (and it must be done seriously) suggest to Ian the concept of remaking the missing episodes with sock puppets. And then tell me his reaction. Thanks.
Gordon
July 20th, 2023 - 11:49amI would but he would only shout expletives at me.
Lewis Frisby
July 18th, 2023 - 12:07pmDo you think for future 1960s sets they will include past animations such as web of fear on episode 3 on season 5 evil of the daleks on season 4 and 2 episodes of the invasion on season 6
Jake E
July 18th, 2023 - 12:31pmI think so.
They all fit on one disc each.
James
July 18th, 2023 - 12:37pmAs the works already been done for blu ray and behind the scenes and cleaning up footage doesn’t make sense not to. Otherwise be not alot on the set
daz
July 18th, 2023 - 12:43pmYes. They’ll be on there if previously released. We’ll not get a new animation exclusive to a set as no budget for that.
Gordon
July 18th, 2023 - 11:04pmOf course they will. They already included the teaser for the galaxy 4 animation on the time meddler plus we also got 2 different versions of shada on season 17 so I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t
Whooo
July 17th, 2023 - 6:50pmIf they came to release a Season 1 collection would they animate Marco Polo for it? I know it would be ridiculously hard for the team but that would really be the gem in that set if they did
Jake E
July 17th, 2023 - 7:33pmI would guess no due to the budget for each set.
But Marco Polo getting animated eventually after the set has been released, sure why not? Give it 10 years and the cost to animate should be small and feasible enough I would think or failing that some fan out there will be crazy enough to do the lot for free and in the meantime we have fantastic telesnaps for it so no real rush 🙂
Gordon
July 17th, 2023 - 10:42pmIt would most certainly need a stand alone release and a year gap before it could end up on the collection. If you are looking for a fan made animation mmf294 is a fun one to watch. It’s not for everyone but I think the style is pretty cute. The animated characters remind me of funko pops.
D84
July 17th, 2023 - 10:51pmI would agree Gordon I imagine the beeb committing to animations they’ll want to see a standalone release with those sales dripping in for a while before that content is repackaged into a “Collection” set.
Don’t get me wrong I WANT them to include the animations on the S1 – S6 sets where there are gaps but from a commercial perspective they’ll want to get their money back first
Which means I’ll be buying them all twice ….. Ah well, with my S20 pre order – I’ve lost count of the number of “Five Doctor’s” I’ve had. Must be at least 4
Gordon
July 17th, 2023 - 11:08pmI’ll still buy them regardless of the collection range including them or after the collection range is finished. I’m too far in to not buy them.
Spearhead is probably my record in terms of rebuying the same story. At least 6 times (dvd twice, special edition once, blu ray once, target once, audiobook once) and it could end up with 8 with the collection and if they ever bring it out in 4k.
Prowl 1701
July 18th, 2023 - 3:02amJust saw the Blueray version of spearhead recently (was sent by a subscriber), and it looked soooo good. Could it look any better in 4K or is the Blueray as far as you can take the 16mm footage?
Rex Farrel
July 18th, 2023 - 4:40amThe existing Spearhead transfer has a fair bit of filtering, as was standard at the time. So it could even look a little better on the Season 7 set unless you hate grain, although 4k would be less of a boost – that would mainly be about the use of HDR. If you have Season 14 then Whose Dr Who, from memory, has a 16mm neg transfer with minimal filtering for comparison (the newly shot material). You could also check comparisons of Texas Chainsaw Massacre on something like Capsaholic to see 70s 16mm on different formats (although TCM obviously isn’t the exact same stock and photography conditions).
Jake E
July 18th, 2023 - 8:19amTexas Chainsaw looks so good in 4K and that’s not the best example because of the camera among other things done differently than Doctor Who for good reason
Rory
July 18th, 2023 - 10:42amI’ll buy S1 with a telesnap recon of Marco Polo.
I’ll buy a steelbook of an animated Marco Polo.
I have steelbooks of all of the animations. I have every Collection set. It won’t really matter to me if it’s animated on the Collection set.
D84
July 18th, 2023 - 11:17amI am the same Rory, I have all the animation steelbooks, plus all the collection sets thus far (LE) plus i had all the DVD’s of classic who
James
July 18th, 2023 - 12:39pmIf they do release more sets with just recons and not animations like season 2 and animate them few years down the line, could they re-release those discs to replace ones in the collection?
D84
July 18th, 2023 - 1:19pmI guess its a possibility James, i have mentioned this before.
For me personally i would rather them hold a “The Collection” set that is missing only 1 story – and await an animation come out.
But as we have had a pause on animations – and at the same time are running out of > 70’s sets to come out – the timelines are likely not going to allow for that.
I can forsee a time when a “The Collection” set that comes out with 1 story represented by stills gets a “Super Ultimate Special Edition” that includes an animation that may come out afterwards – included in the set with the discs moved around to accommodate the extra content.
Probably a fair few years away though
daz
July 18th, 2023 - 2:34pmJames. I see them doing a special edition version of said newly animated story to match the disc art of the related Season Collection so you could swap it out with the old version (as long as it contains all features plus the new animation).
Be interesting to see if it happens in the future. I’d love all missing episodes to be animated eventually.
If not, I’ll just be putting the new animation Blu-ray into the Season set as it is, in same disc tray on top of original disc.
Jake E
July 17th, 2023 - 4:21pmI’ve managed to pre-order the American Doctor Who Series 1-13 Limited Edition set!
Yayy it will ship to the UK in time before the Christmas Holidays 🙂
Knowing my luck now a UK set will be inevitability announced haha
Prowl 1701
July 17th, 2023 - 7:07pmGlad you were able to secure a copy! Curious what the art will look like for it.
Jake E
July 17th, 2023 - 7:30pmThanks Prowl. Saves me having to spend 2 grand on buying the Steelbooks. Oof haha
I’ve got zero expectations for the set other than unfortunately I think the discs will be stacked in horrible bulky cases like they do nowadays but if I’m wrong then fantastic!
Are you thinking about getting the set or will you just stick with your beautiful steelbooks? 🙂
Basil Funkenstein
July 17th, 2023 - 9:51pmJake I’m trying to order one but it says the address isn’t valid, how did you get around this issue?
Jake E
July 17th, 2023 - 10:35pmBBC America doesn’t ship to the UK so I enquired with a different website if they would put the order in for me and ship it to the UK. They have good review ratings and get some profit out of it, works for me. Shipping to the UK is expensive but they use a good courier apparently.
Not sure if I’m allowed to list the website but I got them to list it on their site so hopefully you can find it 🙂
A UK version I bet will show up soon to take the mick haha but nevermind
Basil Funkenstein
July 17th, 2023 - 11:33pmI scrolled Google for ages but could only find the link for BBC America. ☹️
Hopefully it’ll either been released in the UK or able to be delivered from the States by other sources at some point. Fingers crossed.
Prowl 1701
July 18th, 2023 - 3:04amI’m good with my steelbooks for now, but the remastered series 1-4 could make me change my mind, need to see the box art.
Jake E
July 18th, 2023 - 8:24am@Prowl 1701 that makes sense. I currently only own Series 7 and Day of the Doctor on Blu-Ray so this has been a set I’ve been waiting for for some time. Also the numbered certificate and the Limited run tempted me too much haha. I’m pretty sure series 1-4 haven’t been re-remastered. I know what it says but I think it’s just referring to the Blu-rays that are already done as opposed to the DVD/ iPlayer.
@Basil Funkenstein I reckon a UK one will be listed within the month or it will 100% show up on eBay.
Booboo am I allowed to post the link for Basil? Please note Basil it’s not cheap haha
booboo
July 18th, 2023 - 9:35amyes that’s fine
Jake E
July 18th, 2023 - 9:57amhttps://www.hdmoviesource.com/Doctor-Who-Limited-Edition-Complete-Blu-ray-p/15071.htm
There you go UK Buyers, please note that price includes the expensive shipping to the UK and he fudges with the Customs forms a bit so we don’t have to pay the expensive custom prices and then he gets some profit on top (not as bad as scalpers will be later haha)
Jake E
July 18th, 2023 - 10:32amThe way I look at it is the Doctor Who Series 1-7 Blu-Ray boxset cost £249.99 for lots of years and this new set has almost double the content for less money
Rory
July 18th, 2023 - 5:38pmI just want to see pics.
I know it’s limited edition, but if that is just the signature and some Titan Dolls then it’s a nope for me.
Jake E
July 18th, 2023 - 6:59pmWell I’m wondering how it’s almost half the price of the American Series 1-7 Blu-Ray set when it first came out?
Bit concerning. I’ve paid for it but I’m keeping my expectations at zero because it might be cheap crap but we’ll see.
And I guess Basil wasn’t that interested in the set after all haha
Basil Funkenstein
July 19th, 2023 - 12:05amHi Jake. I have been busy living life, forgive me.
I’ve had a look at the link but without any pictures or more info about the boxset I’ve decided to wait for a UK release before spending that much on a set that might not be worth it. If more info about it is released in the coming months then I may change my mind again. Who knows.
Jake E
July 19th, 2023 - 8:17amJust a joke it’s all good 🙂
Prof Horner
July 17th, 2023 - 11:39amWell if we go by Gordon’s schedule for the next 18 months. How many discs will each release have.
Season 16, 7 discs. Season 6 is an interesting one, will The Invasion and The War Games be on one disc each , with the extras for these stories on another disc. If so I think maybe 9 , but possibly 10. Season 25 , 7 discs , with 2 special editions for Remembrance and silly (sorry!) Silver Nemesis. Been the last McCoy, they will want to push the boat with that one . Finally season 11 , 7 discs. What you all think?
Rory
July 17th, 2023 - 3:31pmIf s16 is next then I could see it being 7 discs as a lighter season in terms of VAM. Hopefully some new effects on Kroll and Pirate Planet, and a proper interview with the Taran Wood Beast.
I feel that all of the 60s seasons will be 9 or 10 discs, as there’s just so much there, so I think you’re right with S6.
I expect you’re right about S25 being 7 discs. They really went all out for S24, so they’re definitely trying to fill out the content, and this is the last chance for any McCoy stuff pre Wilderness Years.
For me, I’d like to see another 60s one after that, in order to space them out with the remaining seasons. Possibly S1, depending on if anything happens with the rumoured colourisation of Unearthly Child. Again, 9 or 10 discs.
Gordon
July 17th, 2023 - 6:27pmThat sounds just about right. Maybe an 8th disc for mcoy to give each story 2 discs.
Prowl 1701
July 18th, 2023 - 3:06amI think 25 will the 8 discs, it’s a special season for some people and it celebrates the 25th anniversary. I think 15 and 16 will be 7 discs, but could be 8. 13 I think will be 8 discs, the BBC know it’s a popular season and will go all out for it.
David
July 17th, 2023 - 11:01amHey moderators – could my previous comment be edited to just show “David” as my name rather than my full name? First time posting error…
booboo
July 17th, 2023 - 11:03amdone
David
July 17th, 2023 - 11:04amMuch appreciated!
Gordon
July 17th, 2023 - 8:28amhttps://shop.bbc.com/collections/doctor-who/products/doctor-who-limited-edition-complete-new-who-colllectors-blu-ray-24109
Doctor Who: Limited Edition Complete New Who Collectors Blu-Ray Set
$174.98
Celebrate the Doctor Who legacy with the limited edition Complete New Who Years Blu-ray Collectors Set. With only 6,000 available, this set brings thirteen remastered seasons and exclusive content from Russel T. Davies and David Tennant. Featuring a numbered certificate of authenticity and an exclusive 60th Anniversary Five Figure Titan Set, this Blu-ray is an essential for any Doctor Who fan.
Coming for Holiday 2023
Limited Edition Blu-Ray Collectors Set
Only 6,000 Available
Thirteen Complete Seasons
Newly Remastered Seasons 1-4
Exclusive Bonus Content with Russel T. Davies & David Tennant
Numbered Certificate of Authenticity
Exclusive 60th Anniversary Five Figure Titan Set
Wonder if this will get a U.K. release. The newly remastered series 1-4 intrigues me. Wonder if it means it’s actually been done properly this time
D84
July 17th, 2023 - 8:40amOMG I need this, please please have a UK release
D84
July 17th, 2023 - 8:42amCould this be the Blu Ray project recently teased ??
Gordon
July 17th, 2023 - 9:09amIt’s a possibility that Peter Crocker worked on it I suppose. Depends on if the U.K. is getting it. It would be the first time the restoration team got their hands on the 2005 onwards episodes. It would be expensive (uk price is £134) but I’m sure series 1-4 will eventually get stand alone releases
D84
July 17th, 2023 - 10:37amI hope it is, looks great
I would also settle for individual season sets of NewWho too – i currently have the “volume” editions of the DVD’s for S1-S4 which take up so much space but also extra’s are virtually none existent
Am hoping for some kind of collectors set / “The Collection” for all of New Who at some point
Jake E
July 17th, 2023 - 12:00pmIt won’t ship to the UK nooooo!
I’ve been asking for a complete series 1-13 Blu ray for ages and it’s actually a reasonable price.
Maybe Prowl could order it for me if I give the money haha 🙂
Is there any other websites it’s listed on or just BBC shop?
Jake E
July 17th, 2023 - 12:10pmIt might be like what happened with the Series 1-7 Blu-Ray set where America had it first and it came with a sonic screwdriver and then the UK got it later without the Screwdriver
Samuel
July 17th, 2023 - 2:02pm“thirteen remastered seasons”
So this collection is Eccleston – Whittaker?
D84
July 17th, 2023 - 2:38pmLooks like it Samuel yes, all of NewWho from “Rose” through “Power of the Doctor”
daz
July 17th, 2023 - 3:20pmYou never know. We might get a RTD1 years set in the UK with the remastered and correct speed discs.
Samuel
July 17th, 2023 - 6:54pm@D84 – If so, that sounds perfect. This is exactly what the Doctor Who home media range desperately needs right now. What a lovely 60th treat if true.
@Daz – I think I once ranted with that exact line at a party after 3 or 4 cans of Strongbow haha!
D84
July 17th, 2023 - 9:15pmI quite agree, and exactly what I want/need on the shelf to replace the horrid DVD volumes that I stupidly bought starting in 2005 right up until they switched to Blu Ray for the 2009 specials.
I so want to replace them with something that looks better, takes up less space and has more extras.
I missed out on the re release steel books so this could be my chance
Gordon
July 18th, 2023 - 12:06amI’m a bit skeptical on this release the more I think about it. The “remastering” is sounding like marketing jargon especially as it doesn’t seem to know what has been remastered. Is it all thirteen series or is it just 1-4? . Would not be too suprised if this is just a repackaging and the new s1 -4 remasters is just the new blu ray remasters from 2013. Plus going by what Peter Crocker has said “Remastered” is almost meaningless. If you transcode a file from a Quicktime ProRes .mov to an MXF or AS11, you’ve remastered it but the content is unchanged. Any competent facility could correct the frame rate issues on previous releases.
Really need more info on it first to confirm it is an improvement or not over the 2013 blu rays. Probably still a nice package though
Samuel
July 18th, 2023 - 2:11am@Gordon – It’s too late at night to remember exactly, but didn’t the 50th Anniversary go through a number of re-releases, and the latest version on the Steelbook is now the correct frame rate?
Similar with the 2009 specials steelbook – that version no longer has the frame-ghosting from the first blu ray release
So it sounds like there was active reworking or “remastering” during the 2010’s, it’s just that frustratingly, in my view, the BBC well and truly cocked up Series 1-4 on blu ray. The picture clarity is there, but aside from that, because I grew up on the old dvds, those specific blu rays are unwatchable. The visual movement and audio levels are just really poor.
I mean it’s 2023, surely a boxset as big a deal as this one wouldn’t risk overlooking something as simple as finding the source media, saving it out in the correct frame rate, and simply have a review of the audio track levels.
Apart from those pretty simple fixes for Series 1-4, I’m not personally aware of any picture / sound errors from Series 5-13, and as I’ve said recently, if it’s a nice tidy minimal combo set, similar to the James Bond complete blu ray set, just to keep production costs down and whatever, fine. Great. Just to physically have all of new who in proper, decent definitive quality as a fan would be all I’d need. If the budget goes way further for new extras, nice artwork etc. then excellent.
I think now the cat’s out the bag, it would be such a monumental self kick in the balls if the BBC decided we in the Uk are not allowed our own version of this set to buy. It would just be too stupid not to do it here for the 60th. I just hope the boxset disc main episode content is just done the best that it possibly can be done. If anything in the latter series blu rays isn’t broke, then don’t fix it either.
Rex Farrel
July 18th, 2023 - 6:05amGordon: It wouldn’t hurt to do new upscales on series 1-4, which might have already been done for streaming. So potentially some off the shelf improved masters have just been used for this new set.
Rex Farrel
July 18th, 2023 - 6:34amSamuel: The 50th special was originally released in 24fps worldwide, but the UK box set version had a sound fault. When they fixed that, adding a 2.0 mix, they also used a 50i master (you had to email to get it). That fixed disc was also used in the recent steelbook.
The specials were all a faulty 60i conversion to begin with (poor conversion, faulty due to delayed colour), even though the UK discs were authored separately and included 50i bonus content (was encoding the episodes themselves really so expensive back then?). It was a US re-release that just slowed them to 24fps, and allowed them to be used here in the steelbook. So US requirements gave us the improvements – it was still too expensive for BBC Studios to produce a separate 50i copy at the time apparently. (They never fixed the CiN ep music on the S2 dvds either, cheapskates.)
I’m surprised you had a problem with S1-4 pictures on blu though. I know the audio was disappointing, but they were slowed down to 24fps progressive so you shouldn’t be seeing judder or anything, just 4% slower movement (same as the specials steelbook). Do you think your player might have been doing something odd to them at the time, adding 3:2 pulldown perhaps?
Gordon
July 18th, 2023 - 10:21amI suppose that’s possible Rex but I’m still not 100 percent confident in it. The restoration team is not involved in this release. Seeing at how bad everyone else has been at restoring doctor who that is not a good sign. Peter Crocker goes so far to say he “don’t envisage working on post-2000 programmes”.
Samuel
July 18th, 2023 - 11:04am@Rex, that is such a fascinating insight for me to read, thank you so much.
Regarding the 2009 specials Steelbook, it sounds like the frame ghosting was fixed, but still suffered the same ‘cheapskate’ slow down, as I think it deserves to be called.
I presume you meant the Series 2 Children in Need special was *still* not fixed on the steelbook. If so, that’s shocking. Luckily someone sat in their bedroom made a very decent copy on YouTube. Laughable of the BBC really, that’s Tennant’s very first moments as The Doctor.
There were just so many weird decisions on home releases for S1-4; the lost audio mix of S2 CIN, the missing orchestra vocal mix on the info stamp scene in The Next Doctor, that *really* weird re-recording of “Song for Ten” on the Series 2 soundtrack cd. I’ve no doubt the list goes on, but I’m pretty sure Series 5 onwards, barring the 50th, is pretty solid on home releases, ignoring the ‘Next Times’ being removed.
There is so, so much potential with a S1-13 set, it’s probably the item I’m most excited about this Year. As others have mentioned online, if it can also be made into per season volumes, or per Doctor volumes, even better. Allowing everyone the chance to obtain, hopefully the best possible quality versions of New Who.
Rex Farrel
July 18th, 2023 - 12:12pmSamuel: I think the blu is OK for CiN (although slowed down), but they didn’t ever bother with the PAL dvd – despite it being an easier fix and presumably cheaper (around £3k) than paying for the Hollywood movie scores on the temp track. At least, I’m assuming they paid for the Hollywood scores, syncs and master rights…
BBC Studios move in mysterious ways… And different mysterious ways depending on which country they’re in…
daz
July 18th, 2023 - 5:06pmThe CiN scene still has the incorrect music/ sound effects on the Series 2 steelbook. I always wondered what happened to the Cloister Bell from the TV version.
I’d love proper versions of S1 to S4. I said earlier that we might get a RTD1 years set in UK. Fans would buy it for the new RTD/DT interviews alone.
Get Lee Binding to do the artwork and I’m in.
Rex Farrel
July 18th, 2023 - 10:56pmDaz: They got it wrong again? Bloody hell, it’s not like they weren’t aware. I thought they fixed it for the US DVD, so that means they unfixed it for the HD remasters. You’d think there would be some kind of programme log. Having now read about all the variations on The Next Doctor dvd, I’m just left thinking “—–“.
Tegan’s distant cousin
July 17th, 2023 - 12:59amSo, how are my fellow Australians (and New Zealanders!) who collect the limited edition sets ordering this? Zavvi.com are no longer shipping to Australia and it’s not available through Zavvi.com.au. It’s not on the Australian Amazon site either BUT to my surprise I’ve managed to pre-order it from the UK Amazon site, although I suspect my order might be cancelled as I’m not sure I was supposed to be able to do that. I have also ordered it from Rarewaves, which I’ve already been charged for, but it seems like a safer bet and it was slightly cheaper.
Bushboy
July 17th, 2023 - 6:27amI’m in New Zealand and I ordered the season 9 set from Rarewaves when it looked as though we were not getting a local release. The set arrived with no problems and I have since placed 2 further orders with them (For standard edition sets. I have decided that a complete set of those will be preferable to a mix and match of Australian and UK limited edition sets on the shelf.) which have failed to arrive twice now. I am currently waiting on my third attempt at having these delivered. If they fail to arrive this time I will ask for a refund.
Does anybody know of a reliable way of getting hold of the standard editions in New Zealand? Rarewaves did seem like my best option as they have all of the sets in stock but I’m just not confident that they will all turn up in the post.
David
July 17th, 2023 - 10:57amHave you seen that JB HiFi have recently listed Season 9 as a pre-order (for $124!) and the photos look like the previous Australian packaging. For delivery 23 August 2023.
So maybe the rumours of Disney not allowing physical releases over here are not true. Is it a new distributor I wonder? Will they continue to release further seasons? I guess time will tell.
That’s a big price increase though, and I have to say I’d be a little nervous not ordering a UK version and waiting hopefully that the AU one gets released a few months later. I was always confident that the AU release would follow but after the huge delay for Season 9 I’m not so sure…
Basil Funkenstein
July 16th, 2023 - 11:39pmOkay. So what are people thinking about how many sets we’ll get for 2023 and 2024, 2 this year and 3 next year? Or 3 this year and 2 next year?
I’m almost certain season 16 will be next and then I’m thinking season 5 or 6, depending on missing episodes that may have been found or any new animations, and then season 25.
I’m not sure if they have the time to release another set this year unless they have done a lot of the work on season 16 already but I don’t think they’ll release seasons 16, 5 or 6, and 25 all in one year either.
Going by the information we have currently I’d love to know peoples thoughts and predictions.
Gordon
July 17th, 2023 - 2:30amWell I think we will get another collection release before the end of the year. Season 20 is currently due out September 18. Peter Crocker just delivered the next blu ray project (which he said he thinks will be announced within a few week) and had at least 2 more projects due in September. I suspect one of the September deliveries is the next collection set. September definitely gives it time to be released by Christmas.
As for what season it is. Probably a Tom as it will be nearly 2 years since he last had one. Think it will be 16. Then in 2024 it should be time for another black and white season. Got to be a Troughton. Think wheel in space is more likely to be animated than space pirates so I’m going for season 6 in time for March 2024 by the end of the financial year (I hear that’s how the team measure the year out and that would mean 3 releases in the financial year)Then season 25 as Sylvester is due. Finally season 11 to end 2024.
Basil Funkenstein
July 17th, 2023 - 3:10amI like your thinking Gordon, plus the extra information and insights that you are able to give, that’s also really appreciated. I really hope we do get 1 more set this year and Tom is my favourite Doctor so I’d be absolutely thrilled with season 16. A Troughton season in the new year would be cosmic and I hope your predictions are correct.
Prowl 1701
July 17th, 2023 - 5:46amYeah I really want to get a Troughton on my shelf and figure the next 60’s set will be 6. March would be great if possible for it.
Mike
July 17th, 2023 - 8:33amI think possibly season 4 this year as it is the Troughton season in best shape to be released now: Smugglers & Highlanders as Telesnaps; Underwater Menace has already been produced as Telesnaps; all the other stories have already had animations for their missing stories. Season 2 suggests an unwillingness to animate historicals.
Whereas season 5 has Wheel, which does have Telesnaps, but it would be a shame if they don’t animate that; and Season 6 has Space Pirates which is audio only, so needs to be animated.
Season 16 has to be the favourite for the next Tom (though I thought that would be the first Williams season).
James
July 17th, 2023 - 9:17amThe ubual pattern suggested 3 this year and it’s also an anniversary year so can’t just be 2. Since 2018 it’s been 2, 2019 x3, 2020 x2, 2021×3, 2022 x2. Maybe just a pure fluke/chance of a coincidence. 20 was so ready for release ages ago before the P period hit. Tom set this year surely as ages since he had a set out. So agree with 16 around Xmas time.
Then back to 2 sets next year. Troughton yes needs a set so going to be 5 or 6 as 4 still has too much missing. 5 just needs wheel in space animated (4 eps missing) then that’s the whole season done visually. Whereas 6 has 5 stories missing and the rest of the series has been released on DVD so would need up scaling and more behind the scenes stuff doing as its been years since they were released.
Moneys in 16 for Xmas, 5 for April 2024 then either last sylvester season or a Pertwee one.
Gordon
July 17th, 2023 - 9:37am@mike Season 4 won’t be the first Troughton season. Both smugglers and underwater menace are apparently getting animated. Those need stand alone releases before it can be put in a collection set. If they know these 2 stories are coming they won’t do a collection set straight away. Plus the recon for underwater menace was a deliberately sabotaged mess by the higher ups at the time. It’s pretty unwatchable. Crusade not being animated does not show an unwillingness to do historicals. The crusade was always pretty unlikely to be animated in time for season 2’s release. It’s got a huge amount of characters sets and locations. In terms of assets the likes of galaxy 4 evil and abominable combined doesn’t have as much assets as the crusade. It’s always likely to be one of the last stories ever animated for the range because of that. Derrick handley who does the telesnap reconstructions has said recons for stories like the space pirates shouldn’t be too much of a problem so I don’t think space pirates animated is a necessity at this point
Prof Horner
July 17th, 2023 - 9:54amI would be happy with the schedule you predict Gordon. As I remember season 24 was announced before season 8 was released. So hopefully season 16 (if it is season 16) could be announced in the next two months for a December release. After that it has to be season 6 as the first Troughton release. It is over ten years since any of the season 6 stories have been released.season 5 has many animations in recent years and as Wheel in Space is than likely to be animated , so seems unlikely. I love season 5 , but I want season 6 first.
Who is Who?
July 17th, 2023 - 2:24pmanimations can always come out years later after collections, need ideal but I could live with it
Pete X
July 17th, 2023 - 6:43pmI wouldn’t put too much store into the 2, 3, 2, 3, 2 pattern. It is a result of the circumstances of the last few years; not planning by the team.
As I recall, the first release, S12, was put out to test the demand for the collection and came out in the middle of 2018 after a delay. S19 was released later that year once the collection was deemed viable, and extras and episode clean-up was given the go ahead.
In 2019 four sets were supposed to come out. Three of them were delayed, S18, S23 and S26, such that S26 was released at the begining of 2020. So only 3 sets were released in 2019.
The pandemic hit in 2020, delaying the release of S14 and halting work on the collection (eg S20) while people worked out WFH arrangements, filming extras and interviews, and production.
Once the above issues had been managed, work was resumed. S8 was announced towards the end of 2020 but didn’t come out until spring 2021. Two more sets, S24 and S17, came out in 2021.
S22 was announced fairly early in 2022, but not released until the middle of the year, seemingly delayed by the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the associated rise in costs. The amount of work required on S2 delaying it’s release. So only two releases last year.
So the pattern of number of releases per year is not a real thing the team are working to, but a random thing arising from the circumstances of the last few years.
In the early years of the collection, there were several discussions on this site on how many releases there should be in a year, it generally being held that people would rather have two or three per year to avoid the release delays and problems that the early releases had.
In respect of a further release this year; I’d rather it be delayed until 2024 rather than ‘rush’ released in Dec 2023, especially since S20 has required so much work that it is coming out in Sept rather than around now as most people appeared to expect.
Jake E
July 16th, 2023 - 2:21pmHow do people think the bottom of the J-Card with the Tardis will look?
I think it will be the Tardis and the ships shown. So no hands etc.
Basil Funkenstein
July 17th, 2023 - 1:35amNah, Usually the pic at the bottom of the j-card is a faithful recreation/reuse of the pic on the back cover of the set. I think we’ll see the same with this one.
Jake E
July 17th, 2023 - 8:14amThat’s what I was on about. The Tardis plus the ships from the back cover is what I reckon will be the image. The hands to either side of the Tardis and the Black Guardian above won’t be shown is my guess 🙂
Basil Funkenstein
July 17th, 2023 - 8:34amYes Jake, I know that’s what you were on about and I was saying that I think they will use the pic as it is on the back cover, so with the Black Guardian in the background as well.
I’m sure we’ll both find out in September.
Bookcollector
July 16th, 2023 - 1:31pmSeems appropriate to put this comment here! I was looking today at an old who book. Doctor who – a celebration. 40 years old this year. What struck me was a list of missing episodes in 1983. I feel many fans don’t sometimes appreciate how lucky we are these days, 40 years after the 20th anniversary. So here is a little look at how things stood then and now in (terms of official products.)
William Hartnell.
Marco polo (no episodes 1983/ soundtrack 2023)
Reign of terror (episode 6 1983/1,2,3 & 6 completed with animation 2023)
The crusade (episode 3 1983/1,3 completed with soundtrack/reconstruction 2023)
The time meddler (episode 2 1983/complete 2023)
Galaxy 4 (no episodes 1983/episode 3 completed with animation 2023)
Mission to the unknown (no episodes 1983/soundtrack/remake 2023)
The myth makers (no episodes 1983/soundtrack 2023)
The daleks’ master plan (no episodes 1983/episodes 2,5 & 10 completed with soundtrack 2023)
The massacre (no episodes 1983/soundtrack 2023)
The celestial toymaker (no episodes 1983/episode 4 completed with soundtrack 2023)
The savages (no episodes 1983/soundtrack 2023)
The war machines (episode 2 1983/complete 2023)
The smugglers (no episodes 1983/soundtrack 2023)
The tenth planet (episodes 1,2 & 3 1983/completed with animation 2023)
Patrick Troughton.
Power of the daleks (no episodes 1983/completed with animation 2023)
The Highlanders (no episodes 1983/soundtrack 2023)
The underwater menace (episode 3 1983/episodes 2 & 3 sountrack/dvd 2023)
The moonbase (episodes 2 & 4 1983/completed with animation 2023)
The macra terror (no episodes 1983/completed with animation 2023)
The faceless ones (episode 1 1983/eps 1 & 3 completed with animation 2023)
Evil of the daleks (no episodes 1983/epksode 2 completed with animation 2023)
Tomb of the cybermen (no episodes 1983/complete 2023)
The abominable snowmen (episode 2 1983/completed with animation 2023)
The ice warriors (no episodes 1983/eps 1,2,3 & 6 completed with animation 2023)
The enemy of the world (episode 3 1983/complete 2023)
The web of fear (episode 1 1983/eps 1,2,4,5 & 6 completed with animation 2023)
Fury from the deep (no episodes 1983/completed with animation 2023)
Wheel in space (episode 6 1983/episodes 3 & 6 soundtrack 2023)
The invasion (episodes 2,3,5,6,7 & 8 1983/completed with animation 2023)
The space pirates (episode 2 1983/soundtrack 2023)
Jon Pertwee.
The silurians (b&w only episodes 1983/complete colour 2023)
The ambassadors of death (eps 1-7 b&w eps 1 colour 1983/complete colour 2023)
Inferno (b&w only episodes 1983/complete colour 2023)
Terror of the autons (b&w only episodes 1983/complete colour 2023)
The mind of evil (b&w only episodes 1983/complete colour 2023)
The daemons (eps 1-5 b&w eps 4 colour 1983/complete colour 2023)
The sea devils (b&w only episodes 1983/complete colour 2023)
Frontier in space (eps 1-6 b&w eps 4 & 5 colour 1983/complete colour 2023)
Planet of the daleks (eps 1-6 b&w eps 1,2,4- 6 colour 1983/complete colour 2023)
Invasion of the dinosaurs (ep 1 b&w eps 2-6 colour 1983/complete colour 2023) episode 1 was missing prior to June 1983.
Jake E
July 16th, 2023 - 2:20pmGeez my dude that’s a lot of reading haha
I would have to schedule a time where I can sit down for 5 hours and read it all 🙂
Prof Horner
July 16th, 2023 - 3:01pmI remember getting 1981 DWM winter special (which I still have) and been shocked that so many episodes where missing. Particularly my Favorite Doctor(no not Sylvester!) Patrick Troughton. Who had only five complete stories and not much more. Now 42 years later there are only three Troughton stories not complete in some form ot other with animation or tele snap reconstructions and out DVD and Blu ray. Amazing.
Doug Who
July 16th, 2023 - 4:12pmYes Prof I remember that DWM special too. It was as you say a real shock at the time how little Troughton remained. I always remember how much Pertwee was at the time only in black and white. It seemed so relatively recent to have been junked.
While I think some animations are much better than others, the efforts to complete stories in some way have to be applauded. Personally I just wish everything could have been to the standard of ‘The Invasion’. The tests Cosgrove Hall (sadly now long gone of course) did for ‘Power’ is another example of what might have been. I would have loved to have seen what they might have done with ‘Abominable Snowmen’ or ‘Fury from the Deep’.
Bookcollector
July 16th, 2023 - 6:40pmIt’s so great now to be able to watch so many returned and animated episodes. Not sure if we will get many more returned now. Between 1983 and 2003 21 episodes were found. Between 2003 and 2023 12 episodes have been found. Hopefully more will turn up but it’s looking increasingly unlikely now. I’m not being negative just realistic. I have friends who refuse to buy the animations because they are adamant the episodes will be found and released. I’ve seen comments saying why don’t the BBC just find and release them? It’s not that simple. I hope more are found but it won’t be all of them. I had hoped we were going to get more animations this year after the rumour of smugglers and menace but there has been nothing since to confirm it. I think without animation we will always have gaps on the shelves. I’m just grateful to have as many “completed” stories as we have.
D84
July 16th, 2023 - 7:11pmI would agree bookcollector – as time drifts on it would seem unlikely but you never know
I’ve got all the animations as I think generally they are all great. Some are better than others but none are unwatchable in my opinion
If at this point I could have a full shelf including every story – with the gaps all filled by animation is be happy
Even B&W 4:3 representation – find I’m good with that
….one day
Gordon
July 16th, 2023 - 10:01pmThe archive has certainly shrunk a little bit over the past 40 years. In some ways we are very lucky that it’s only 97 episodes that are missing especially when you look at some other shows and realise how many more episodes they have missing. It would be nice if we could find more episodes turn up but sadly they don’t just appear. Having animations have really helped with 44 missing episodes now available to watch. Just leaving 53 episodes. 52 if you want to count mission to the unknown having being also remade and also an unofficial ian Levine animation which I hear stands a good chance of appearing in the s3 box set. With the rumours of toymaker smugglers and underwater menace being animated that number could drop a further 9 very soon and if other titles get animated the number of episodes to get animated will drop under 40. Even if they don’t all get animated officially I’m sure talented fans will fill in the remaining blanks eventually. Yes We will get a full run.
Anon
July 17th, 2023 - 12:55amI’ve got a mission to the unknown DVD with the remake, the Ian Levine animation and a reconstruction on which is great.
Prowl 1701
July 17th, 2023 - 2:37amI don’t think some people realize how lucky we are that all of the audio exist for every story. Many shows from that time are not so lucky.
Anonymous
July 17th, 2023 - 2:40amProbably in the minority here, but I’d be more content with the animated projects as the final form of these episodes if they recognised that 1960s Doctor Who is three-dimensional by virtue of being live action, and when you watch an existing episode of 1960s Doctor Who, it has quirks and charms that simply don’t translate to the 2D medium. Wobbly cameras, diverse camera angles, dynamic lighting, frantic physical acting, blurry zooms, film grain. It’s like people only think about how palatable the animated episodes are rather than how good they are at bringing something back that you’re probably never gonna see, or if they work with the episodes around them.
Anonymous
July 17th, 2023 - 2:44amAlso I’ve got to agree with Doug Who on The Invasion. Even with what I said about 2D animation, to this day, The Invasion is still the best attempt to capture the vibe of 1960s Doctor Who and actually “bring the episodes back.” So far, it’s the only animation project where I find myself, maybe not forgetting outright, but not quite thinking about the fact that the episodes are missing.
Bookcollector
July 17th, 2023 - 2:49amI’ve said that before prowl. Can you image what it would be like not having the soundtracks? No animations or reconstructions would be possible. Think about a story like myth makers where there are very few photos and only small clips. Who fans are so lucky in that none of the missing episodes are actually completely missing
Prowl 1701
July 17th, 2023 - 5:45amYes, we are truly lucky that we can experience these stores, even as much as we can. I’m going through the recon of Myth Makers now for the first time and enjoying it. So glad the audio survives thanks to fans of the time.
Jake E
July 16th, 2023 - 12:46pmAnother website has listed Monday 18th September 2023 as the release date!
Looking likely so only 2 months away, sweet 🙂
Potentially another set could be released Dec/ Jan then
D84
July 16th, 2023 - 1:27pmExcellent news thanks Jake
Prowl 1701
July 16th, 2023 - 12:06amIs that the Tower of Rassilon on the front cover art over by Davison’s left (his left) shoulder? I didn’t notice that before, the front cover art doesn’t usually do that. I like it.
Lewis frisby
July 16th, 2023 - 9:52amI know it’s definitely on the tardis disc
Jake E
July 16th, 2023 - 9:52amOoo interesting I see something there now.
This throws open some interesting potential for the future sets too. But I would urge Lee Binding to not go to far with this sort of thing. I wouldn’t want the front cover to get too overcrowded or to take focus away from the main image but there’s some interesting potential.
What similar things could be done for future boxsets?
The Silver Nemesis castle randomly comes to mind for Season 25